Governance and Audit Committee - Thursday 7 March 2024, 3:00pm - Feedback Tab - West Yorkshire Combined Authority Webcasting
Agenda
Slides
Transcript
Map
Resources
Forums
Speakers
Feedback
Votes
Speaking:
Agenda item :
Start of webcast
Share this agenda point
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Myles Larrington, Committee Services Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
Agenda item :
1 Apologies for Absence
Share this agenda point
Agenda item :
2 Declarations of Disclosable Pecuniary Interests
Share this agenda point
Agenda item :
3 Exempt Information - Possible Exclusion of the Press and Public
Share this agenda point
Agenda item :
4 Minutes of the Meeting held on 16 October 2023
Share this agenda point
Agenda item :
5 Notes of the Informal Meeting held on 11 January 2024
Share this agenda point
Agenda item :
6 Internal Audit Progress Report
Share this agenda point
-
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee
-
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee
-
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee
-
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
Agenda item :
7 Internal Audit Plan 2024-2025
Share this agenda point
-
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars
-
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Agenda item :
8 External Audit Progress Report
Share this agenda point
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Cllr Silvia Dacre (Calderdale Council)
-
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars
-
Cllr Paul Davies Kiriklees Council
-
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars
-
Cllr Silvia Dacre (Calderdale Council)
-
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Agenda item :
9 Treasury Management
Share this agenda point
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Gary Dowson, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
Agenda item :
10 Compliance and Monitoring
Share this agenda point
-
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Gary Dowson, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
Agenda item :
11 Risk Management
Share this agenda point
-
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee
-
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee
-
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Cllr Silvia Dacre (Calderdale Council)
-
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Cllr Silvia Dacre (Calderdale Council)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member)
-
Webcast Finished
Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:00:00
film to this and recorded as well, OK, so agenda item 1 apologies for absence, have we got any apologies, apologies for absence, Chair hadMyles Larrington, Committee Services Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:00:13
been received from Mark Dodson, Councillor Susan Hinchcliffe, Councillor Alan Lamb, Mark outside a Councillor, Cathy Scott and Councillor Jane Skelton,thank you, but we are core today so yeah, which is good.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:00:26
okay agenda item 2 declarations of interest from anybody.no careful regard, no declarations of interest and agenda item 3 is matters which require the exclusion of the press or public, there is one matter which is detailed in the agenda where officers have recommended the public be excluded from the meeting that's relates to conversations on Appendix 2 agenda item 11 so can I ask Members to accept the recommendation this matter is exempt.
and thus, alright yeah, thank you, so that's agreed K. Agenda item 4, we've got the minutes to agree from the 16th of October, we couldn't do it at the last meeting because we weren't core it, so could I ask if anyone's got any comments questions first no,
so do members agree that they are an accurate reflection of the meeting?
he was OK, thank you.
and agenda item 5 is looked at as the minutes of the last meeting held on the 11th of January, but that's a slight error, the meeting was in court last time, so we had an informal discussion around this and so the minutes have been withdrawn and the meeting has been noted on the website rather than having minutes to approve today.
OK.
so there's nothing further to do on that section of agenda item.
1 Apologies for Absence
2 Declarations of Disclosable Pecuniary Interests
3 Exempt Information - Possible Exclusion of the Press and Public
4 Minutes of the Meeting held on 16 October 2023
5 Notes of the Informal Meeting held on 11 January 2024
agenda item 6 is the progress on internal audits, and I think that's a bronze take us through and delighted to see that you now have all your vacancies filled, which is really positive news.
6 Internal Audit Progress Report
thank you Chair, it is and as a result of that with feeling very
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:02:21
confident that we will certainly get enough work done to have an unlimited by scope opinion this year, so we've been on on the slight edge of that all year and we're very happy to be in a much stronger position now.that said the
I did talk at the previous meeting about a business case that we were developing to look at results to take us forward.
you'll note from the papers that we are continuing to see.
referrals around counter-fraud and whistleblowing which continue to rise that does soak up quite a lot of resource, so the business case that we've we've been preparing has reflected both what we believe we need in terms of resource to deliver the plan for next year but also to look at succession and what we do in terms of growing our own for the future, and I think I said last time we were looking to build some apprenticeships into that plan which is currently under review by the the senior leaders in the office. So we hope to have some some further news for you at the next Committee meeting on that.
we have got five reports that we've closed since the last Committee, we've put summaries in the paper for the Committee to consider one of those was a minimal assurance report.
we have had some some.
feedback from management in response to the recommendations in that report, and we believe it would be useful for one of that team to come and present to the next Committee in terms of making progress against those recommendations, because at this point we believe it's really imperative that their actions in a timely way so if the if the committee is happy to endorse that request for attendance that would be helpful.
that's that's all I was gonna raise specifically, but I'm very happy to take questions and answer anything where members would like further information, any questions.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:04:24
Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee - 0:04:30
and do thank you Chair, really good news about the recruitment.I suppose the question is, if your business case is rejected, what are the implications that retention as well, we know it's a very, very difficult job market and internal order, everybody's trying to recruit.
what retention arrangements will be put in place to keep the ones you've recruited, do you?
PIF training CPD
subscriptions, to the relevant membership.
lobbies, et cetera
awkward questions or reflected in our business case, you'll be happy
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:05:13
to know, I mean we have, we have talked with the team.quite extensively about what they would find attractive about the roles we've managed to recruit some really good people. We are very keen to keep them and I think that is it is absolutely the right emphasis, so we are trying to make sure we're doing a lot of things we've built into the business case, things that we can do around things like absolutely subscription, CPD, all of that kind of stuff, but along with that, making sure that there's good succession within that structure so that people can actually see the career opportunities within the CA going forward, and we believe that is going to strengthen our position in terms of keeping the good ones that we've got. We don't want to lose them, so I think I think it's about balance around all of it, but individually I think those things that you mentioned the package, things do matter and we are seeing actually a lot of changes in in the were. You'll know, Joe from the government audit agency and others in government, they are trying to enhance the package for auditors now, so that's why we built it into the the business case, so hopefully we're on the front foot with all of that
sorry, one more question.
Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee - 0:06:28
you talked about the fraud referrals, increasing that your team undertook those investigations, is there anybody on the team who has got the counselled qualification and what happens when an investigation reaches the stage where you would need to be considering interviewing and pace requirement?another good question. So we do have somebody who has investigation
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:06:55
experience and we're looking at potential qualification routes for them through an apprenticeship. We're also in the business case looking to bring in an apprentice to grow our own for the future, so we can bring them in train them and then give them lots of experience which, and ultimately we do seem able to provide at the moment. So so, while while ever we don't have anybody who is qualified at the moment, we absolutely understand the necessity to make that the case going forward, but just to make the Committee aware, I am talking to colleagues in other MC eyes about the potential for us looking at some some shared resource around counter-fraud because I, I think, with the best will in the world, all of us in combined authorities need to have some presence in the organisation around four, but we're not really running the level and detail of investigations that allow you to invest in the tools, the the specialist equipment that you need. You know sound-proofed interview rooms all the the qualifiedpace stuff or for for the staff to be able to interview under caution. All of that comes at a huge cost and I am not sure we can justify that in terms of the type of cases that we get in the main. But you right we do have the odd case that really requires that, and at the moment we're looking at what are the options across all of us in terms of how we access that, so we're looking at potentially whether there is a the call of contract, we could Institute across BMC A's so that we can all access some specialist support without it costing individual see EIS or and on the leg to do a really thorough investigation. We're also having a conversation with the the serious fraud Office really just to understand what what they can do and what they can't do, and we're also gonna instituted a conversation with the government order agency to see whether they are or whether therefore, order team could help us out or possibly would be interested in the call of contract. So we've got lots of things that we're we're kind of thinking about and trying to get
in hand, because you've seen the growth through the papers over the last number of committees the growth in terms of referrals, and we're just getting to the point now where some of them are getting quite big and really they outweigh the capacity and skill sets that we've got in house.
I got a few as well for the cerebral, so fraud, whistle on
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:09:29
whistleblowing the case numbers are going up.and that's really good, because I suppose it shows the systems working if people feel I can come forward and they are doing and are getting investigated, but I just wondered what measures are being put in place or if there are any measures in place to look at synergies across those cases to see if system suits endemic problem within the system?
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:09:54
so we do analyze the types of cases that are coming in and we can definitely see some trends and themes around where they are originating from, so you will recall, at the last committee we asked the head of the adult skills team to come in and talk about a minimal assurance report we'd had with one of their providers.it's fair to say that the adult skills world has more issues of this kind and we are seeing that are coming to the fore in terms of the kind of referrals that we're getting. We also see a number of referrals through some of our support to businesses. Unsurprising, really, when you think about it, it's where you would expect the fraud to come out of we do recognise, and this is. This is absolutely why we're building a business case around resources. We recognise we need to do more prevention work, we really need to be giving all of the teams, the different teams that have those kinds of interactions, the same tools, understanding and awareness of what to do about not just detecting the fraud but building in the controls to prevent them. So we've not had any we've not had any losses yet as a result of of proven fraud, we have one case where potentially we may end up with a small loss, but I do mean a small loss, so it's not been driven from a financial perspective, I think it's much more about the efficiencies and making sure that we're not exposed to that, and that's subsequently we don't have something of magnitude. That would be a reputational and financial risk to the organisation, so I think there's more to do. I think we just need the results to be able to do it,
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:11:36
thank you my next ones around the climate change report, so in now it said that there was a lack of visibility over who is reporting to who, so I just add I have in mind we talked once for briefly about an assurance matrix would that be picked up in that one?or has it been?
not specifically, but it absolutely could be, and that's another piece of work where we are wanting to do a bit more on the kind of
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:12:04
prevention of control issues, et cetera, with the organisation as a whole, to look at more, not assurance maps per se, but just that understanding of the assurances and where they feed in et cetera. So we did actually have quite a lengthy discussion with the director who's got responsibility for this, and we talked about some of the things that could be built in, because what we were identifying was not that there was not assurance and not reporting to different. It was how well they were talking to each other and how well they were sited on what else was going on, so they're gonna do quite a lot of work around building that picture and it's right that it sits in the business to do that, it's not something Audit should go and due to them they should build that understanding for themselves.so whatever it was, the limited assurance is the right opinion for that piece of work we were very.
positively reassured at the response we got to that because we had such good discussions with the with the director there about what what she could do to put this in place and take that forward, and she was very open to the advice that we were able to offer in relation to that so again we should bring that back to a future meeting and perhaps ask that team to come and talk about what they've done because it is such a big issue for for the CIA, thank you. Adult education,
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:13:27
sorry, yeah, we've got to two reports on there, you've got it or a reports or review set at 9.00 and the VA review 7, I'm just trying to work out what the difference in the area of focus was between them because one had a reasonable assurance someone had minimal once described as funding and performance and near the says finance and outcomes and those in my mind is almost the same things I just wondered.where the difference delayed.
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:13:57
so it depends entirely on the provider, so in terms of thethe adult skills world we deal with are really varied, provide a base, so in terms of what we're looking at, we're looking at there, controls across the board, whether they be financial, whether they be about the learner experience, etc so it can be minimal or reasonable or limited assurance depending on where we pick up the issues with that particular provider.
I think it's a when we have already alluded to the fact that it is a very interesting world.
and you do get huge variation from local small providers versus your national big providers that are doing things on a much bigger scale, so I think the risk will will depend entirely on the nature of the provider that you're dealing with. Does that make sense of that and
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:14:54
that most complete says is maybe just worse, putting something in the notes because they do look very similar on paper, but if you haven't got that context, so just for clarity, that'd be good and my final one is around trunk sports, so we've gota loss of actions outstanding and then I think, an increasing number, if I'm right from the last meeting, so I just really wondered what's happening in that area what action is being taken is can we get some insight around that about the the actions?
yet so I, I think, you're right, it has gone up because of course we
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:15:31
have completed another couple of reports in that area of the business. What I would say is that the the production of the papers has engendered a lot of interest in what is happening with the recommendations and since we actually published the papers we've since had updates from that team who have gone through all of the outstanding recommendations across the reports to give an update to us, and that number is gonna go down quite significantly. A number of those have been closed. Lots of it predicated on the work that the new on the outcome of the new system that they've put in place, which was going to address a lot of the control issues from the previous report.so we've had a lot of feedback to show lots of positive progress, but we are just starting the follow up, work to go and evidence, though so I'm going to keep my powder dry until the next meeting and then give you a confident position on whether those recommendations we believe have been fully met and we're confident they're doing the right things and I think it's important that we do have somebody from that that direct trip back to speak to the committee next time and I think it would be appropriate for them to talk about progress against the recommendations be good, thank you and he has a question John
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:16:47
sorry, meagre.Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee - 0:16:53
just in relation to the overdue recommendations for me personally, I don't know about the rest of the committee, it would be helpful to see.an aged assessment, how we overdue are we talking, is it among six months longer, just so we got some understanding of how long the risk that you or weakness you identified is it hasn't been addressed?
obviously we don't have that in the paper currently, but we can we can
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:17:22
supply that if the committee would find that helpful, it's not difficult for us to pull that information together, and I think that'd be useful, thank you.Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:17:29
any other questions.7 Internal Audit Plan 2024-2025
no case thank you, so we'll move on to agenda item 7, and that's the internal audit plan, and it's actually to ask members to approve the internal audit plan, so Brandy wants to take us through anything less.
Bronwyn Baker, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:17:51
so the plan we brought to the Committee in January, it's not changed in terms of what you saw, then we have and all having further discussions with business just to make sure that when it comes to looking at the scope of particular issues within the plan that we're narrowing that down, we will continue to do that throughout the course of the year and I think just picking up earlier points about,this is the nature of the plan and the breadth of the plan. I believe it's the right plan or I firmly believe it's the right plan. I think, though, we do need to resolve the issue on the business case in terms of resource to deliver that plan, and I think I put in the paper that if if we don't have the right resource to deliver it, we will need to revisit it and we will need to bring it back to GSC. But, other than that, it is not different from what the Committee discussed at the January meeting, which
and then we work for it, but we are today, so that's helpful,
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:18:56
Q. Any questions no, can I ask if members endorse the plan yeah, thank you, so if note that's been approved, it's agenda item 8, that's the update on the progress of an external audit and this is quite a lot to digest within the paper I've found.so, although I think Members may have read the papers as I have, I am keen to ensure that we're really aware informed on the key matters within them, so especially things which will impact the work of this committee, Sir Angela, could you take us through it and then maybe with some contribution from the silence as well I will check thank you
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:19:34
so starting at the top,going back to 21 22 accounts, just a reminder that we have they were signed off at the end of last year. The final piece of work is value for money conclusion and where we were, we had an initial plan to try and get that than by the end of March. There is work underway now we are let that work is still on. It is still in progress at an early stage, so the value for money work. We should have a be able to report that back to the next meeting formally, but we would, if it should be concluded well before the next meeting, which won't be until June or July, so I think we've agreed when it's completed, we'll share it with the committee outside of the cycle of meetings, so you can be reassured that of the conclusions at work and depending what that conclusion is, whether you want to have any further discussions with us or not, and Alice is nodding, because I think that is what we talked about y fact, if I can, just on that point is helpfully doing
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars - 0:20:31
this as a double act. Isn't that, but that's absolutely right. The work is, I wouldn't say it's at a very early stage, is well advanced and I'm had a conversation with Mark, my senior manager, who's still confident the end of March, is deliverable and achievable. He's got a call tomorrowthere are some bits of evidence we're waiting for in order to give us the confirmation of the arrangements that they Combined Authority has in place, and that should be achievable by the end of the month, so we are, we'd circulate that to Angela she'd circulate around you and that and I'll make the offer if anyone wants a side conversation appreciating that the next meeting isn't for some months then more than happy to do that.
so that was the straightforward it, and we we then move into the the
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:21:22
the complex world, of the the backlog consultation on 22 23 and soon to be 23 24 account, and so when we last met we advised, I think most Members were aware of through this committee or all arrangements at their own authority that we know there is a8 External Audit Progress Report
challenging the system and there is a a backlog in the in the local audit world and when we met last time in January awaiting a consultation coming out.
that consultation has come out subsequently, and it is.
open to closes today there are, it ended up being more than one consultation because the different strands of the organisations and their interests in it, so there is there, is deadlock this National Audit Office, and these will start to get tacky about what are some of the practical things that could be done to help reduce the workload.
I think the real challenge in all of this is none of the delivered solutions being put forward suddenly gives more resource to the external audit world results have the same number of people they had before and after this consultation, what it is hoping to achieve is there's a set of backstop dates which I'll point you to in a moment which is in the appendix it gives a timescale by which audits must be finished and there is clearly a
piece of work to be done between auditoria and all the teams to determine how we managed to those backstop date, bearing in mind where we are where we are up to in a cycle of audit the availability of audit resource, the challenge of if you don't do one set of accounts what sort of account is not fully audited, how does that impact on the following year, so how do we try to square this into a better place? The consultation proposes a set of backstop dates which is in Appendix 1
there are a lot of papers we thought, rather than try to pull out the bits that might be of interest, we put it all in there for you, but the interesting one is on, I think, page 50.
something of the first appendix I will find it again, there's a little table that shows the backstop dates page 55 of the pack, so there is a backstop date of September 24 for the 22 23 account, whatever happens, we will have to conclude together, the work on the 22 23 accounts come what may and obviously masala balancing that across all our audit clients.
and so there is, there are discussions underway with with all the relevant parties, but that that is the proposal, there is a sliding scale for follow up for future years, audit until March 24 has a backstop date of March 25, and then it eventually comes back in line to where we wanted it to be in the first place.
one of the helpful things in here.
is the value for money which is proposed that the value for money opinion in respect of these dates will be done in November, I think in the current climate that's probably something to welcome that that VFM work will happen and there will be a formal opinion on that even without the the statutory accounts being concluded by the same date and obviously that will vary between different organisations and when we talk last time I know that there was interest about should we respond to the consultation, I think we needed to see what it looked like.
I think the issue that the committee was particularly concerned about was that there was a plan to try and get back on track, and there is one, and I think it's extremely difficult to come up with any proposal, so there is something here, but I think the the various parties in the industry are hoping what will work.
I think there was also some concern about the, I might rephrase that we would acknowledge the increase in audit fee, I think the committee recognise why audit fees were needing to increase, but it came at an uncomfortable time of public sector funding challenges and appointment audits may not be fully complete and a question about whether the audit fees would be adjusted accordingly.
there is a statement from public Sector Audit appointments. PSA are saying that they will very much look at that, but I think to just highlight that, even if we don't get one, we may be in a world where we weeks of 22 23 audit is not on the way we've only just published accounts,
if they do not get finished by the end of September that may not be for want of a lot of work going in by auditors, to the lack of a flawed opinion will may still result in a a good chunk of audit fee being payable depending on what work gets done so I think there is a straight line correlation.
we were expected to append the the proposed response, the mechanism that being followed is a question and boxes to take in a very interactive way, so we've worked our way through it and
what we propose doing is, I've done it sort of pause ready to go, is sort of
finally helpful that there is a proposal flagging that we, when the Committee is keen, that the audit fees are kept under review, but it is very hard to come up with something alternative to to this.
in terms of the technical ones, I think we've been through that with other colleagues from other combined authorities and and locally.
I think generally there feels to be a mixed sense to try and curtail some of the the the pieces of audit work that are taking a long time to try and help get a little bit of capacity back into the into the system, and, I'd think a debate whether we need to overly engage with the proposals there they seem straightforward and hopefully helpful to moving this on so.
that's what's in the paper I did circulate before the meeting and external Audit update from hazards.
I think because of the timing of work underway and the meeting, the the we sort of crossed.
to have brought this meeting analysis will,
I think happily drank any highlights in it. It's not what we usually get at this time of year because in an unusual world to live is not there's nothing hidden in there that we're trying to rush past. You analysis can can highlight key points in that and may have views of some of the other bits I've sort of jumped through but happy for any questions whether you want to let Alice's beat them between us, take seriously and take questions on what Andrew has just said first, and
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:27:55
then we'll pass across so okay, happy to all especially yeah sorry, I'm more than happy to help answer those, because the consultations, as you can appreciate, something that I've had daily conversations with Audit Committee Scotland because all the audit committees are grappling with the same things andAlistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars - 0:28:12
I would say I've got a well rehearsed speech because he's not a rehearsed speech, but I'm probably in a good position to try and answer the questions, good thank you.Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:28:25
any addendum, because any questions no, I suppose, when, when I read through the documents, I already want such a probably everybody because it's quite significant, wasn't it, but?it's this challenges, isn't that in terms of getting us up to speed and getting figures, that we can be confident in, and it talked about things like one report covering several years, it focuses on significant weaknesses and I thought, well, how can you know what the significant weaknesses argue haven't done the pre work and then it talked about placing reliance and accuracy of opening balances and again if the work hasn't been done, how do you get that assurance so I suppose what I was thinking?
I know I know what it can't cover at all, because that's the problem is that there isn't a resource there, but is there anything we can do internally to look at the risks that sits around this approach and make sure that we've mitigated any of the risks?
briefly, for me, I think I think it's been acknowledged through all of
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:29:19
this, the only way through it is for auditors and auditees to work together about what we can do, what we feel comfortable doing what the auditors are doing.as I say, Alice is wrestling with this with multiple Audi clients, we're doing it from our perspective and I think we have got session in next week to try and work through how we want to start approaching this.
Alison may have a his well-rehearsed yeah, I mean I'll I'll pick up
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars - 0:29:48
both of those points because I think they're really that they get a number of at the first point on the multi year reporting that applies to the value for money work alone that's something I am really keen to do because it's an efficient use of time and resource to try and catch up.so when I said earlier around aiming to report on value for money work in March that is going to be bringing that up to the 31st of March 23 position for valley money value for money which then puts us in the position of doing your 23 24 value for money arrangements, work in a more timely fashion, so we can report that to you at I'm not going to commit to the July meeting, it might not get done for the July meeting that
22 23 and 21 2 stuff will, but it will be as soon as possible indefinitely, in advance of November, which is the proposed end date in the
an EIS consultation in terms of the significant weaknesses. So that will all that will be is we will be doing a piece of work that's looking at both years together and then doing a single report covering both years. There will probably have to be, for reasons I won't bore you with a separation in the report between both years, but it will be very clear that it is one report to you and it's giving you the position as at the end of 22 3 and not saying 0, we've done something 18 months old now in another year we'll come back and tell you what 18 months so get. What's that's not gonna help anyone, so that's that's a really good, in my opinion, a really good way forward to help us catch up on the value for money side. He talks about the opening balances. This is, if I'm honest, this is a really difficult situation and the consultation, however well worded and good. It is doesn't go into detail about the
and the challenges and the problems that auditors are going to have in implementing this.
because if I'm auditing a balance at a particular point in time.
I don't actually care what the year before and the year before, that was because I'm auditing at a point in time, but there's a very in local government. There's a very real issue around the value and the balance of the General Fund and the working balances of any organisation in local government and auditing in one year gives me no assurance that there aren't things in the previous years that have been rolled into that and hence there are no answers. I'm happy to take any questions you might have on any other detail, but there are no answers to those questions at the moment, because that is the level of detail, but my colleagues in Mozes and the other audit firms and deal UK CIPFA, the Inácio are all trying to grapple with. Is what does this mean in practice? If we issue a what is being what is known as a disclaimer opinion, because we haven't finished all the audit work on a set of accounts, or does that mean for next year. What does that mean for the year after, because we can't be in a situation of having disqualified or disclaimer opinions, qualified opinions in perpetuity, just because in one year we didn't do enough work,
so there are some real practical challenges and we will need to come back to this committee and I'll come back to this committee once that landscape is much clearer post consultation post those discussions, there are very real grappling issues and they will impact on the Combined Authority add or I'll make that absolutely clear, as Angela said I I haven't seen them but she says that the council now published but they're only just published for 22 3.
I won't be, because it's my first meeting, I'm not going to be able to defensive about the auditor issues here. There are audit resource issues. I don't face the same resource issues of missiles that other firms are facing them and we can only audit a set of accounts that's available. So there are in the sector. A number of challenges and auditor resource is only one of those challenges. So we will, as I say, will be talking to Angela starting that conversation next week as to what we think it might look like and then post consultation once that gets published, and we know what the position is. Then we can plan very clearly as to what are we going to do on your 22 3 accounts by the end of September this year? Thank you. So can this committee be
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:34:13
sited on that? The progress of those discussions and also the risks that sits around that, because, fundamentally, that will impact all the decisions going forward. When sits if we're making decisions based on a position that you know, maybe not accurate, it's it's tricky so, yeah, I I will definitely one of the things I was going to say. My McDonough intro, wasI will bring a report to each of the meetings here or I'd done it. This is my first time coming to a meeting of her son, engaging and working with you at the Combined Authority, but I I don't like verbal reports. I like to bring a written report that comes to your of meeting so that you've got time to absorb it and understand it and raise questions to make us that's an important part. So post consultation, I will absolutely bring an update report. That's really clear on what has happened, what it means and what it means for the Combined Authority, and about my audit of your accounts, that's nothing, thank you, OK, so do you want no sorry, Councillor Stoker, that's OK.
Cllr Silvia Dacre (Calderdale Council) - 0:35:24
so does it make it any easier that if, if I'm standing right that you're from was responsible for the 21 22 account, so that at least when you come to the next set, you've got some idea?if what's happened, yes, it does.
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars - 0:35:41
though there is a, there is a separate issue and and some of you and Councillor Dyke, you are in this situation because actually I don't need to declare an interest but and be pointed out, it's difficult at all going forward and I came to your Audit Committee a couple of weeks ago and have the same discussion with them. There are challenges where audits are changing suppliers and I am inheriting one or one set of accounts that hasn't been audited. Thankfully, we don't need to worry about that in this room because we're not in that situation. I am I am reaping what I saw in my audit for 22 3 when it comes to 23 4, so I have a vested interest in making sure that I've done sufficient work almost unsigned years, to make sure that I can give an unqualified opinion in the future years.I think you've you've alluded to this earlier on anyway.
Cllr Paul Davies Kiriklees Council - 0:36:32
it always looking backwards anyway in any old, it's always backwards, and at the moment we're looking backwards and markers of backwards, so from my perspective and we still see the split in cookies.what what we need is something which gives us the opportunity to learn quickly from what has been happening and address the financial challenges that we have now.
politically for us, as Councillors is difficult because you will get the opposition news in something that was standard two years ago, as if that's happening now, and because of this gap that causes issues, but I think the essential thing and you would sort of pointed this is,
is that for is not obviously ignoring the that what needs to be done, but how is it that we get to a point very, as quickly as possible to have something which is useful and means something for the organisation and actually the financial direction strategy and actions that need to be taken, otherwise we just go in through in many respects an academic,
debate, which is it might be fairly pointless,
I would share those views from a personal perspective and there's a
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars - 0:37:47
new, there's the two really important strands within the consultations and thejoint statements that came with the consultations one is that there is a a statement around the rebuilding assurance, what does rebuilding assurance looks like there's a very clear intention and the backstop dates are deliberately designed to both rebuild assurance and make sure that auditor reporting and authority reporting is on a timely basis and that's part of that rebuilding assurance in the sector.
because it's unsustainable, and it's not appropriate that a Councillor not signed off in a in a timely way, that's another of those questions where the consultation poses a question.
and the devil is going to be in the detail, what does rebuilding assurance mean, how is that going to work, and that's the thing that, thankfully, people with bigger brains than me and higher up the food chain, the mere grappling across all the firms is what what is that going to look like, how is that going to work and at what point have we rebuilt assurance? But I absolutely take the points that are absolutely valid and and right to make it
Cllr Silvia Dacre (Calderdale Council) - 0:39:09
it's I suppose, from the point of view of that, all transparency to.Les and opposition in the West Yorkshire Combined Authority, but people not wanting to look, or at least we can say that the draft financial statements are out there now, so it's not as if that is being hidden in any way in weight sitting around in the background waiting for external audit it is out there for anybody who cares to try to.
make sense of it and raise questions on it, isn't it, and I think that's an important thing that sometimes get lost gets lost in all of this discussion about internal audit, that what what really does matter for this combined authorities, that we have been able to put those statements in the public domain and if you haven't then I think people could be genuinely concerned.
can I just add to that I think, to conclude they've gone out later
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:40:01
than they would normally have been a very odd year, because I think this situation of the backlog sort of has always crept up over the last year and add a previous report to the Committee, we focus our attention on 21 22 and once they were finished and turned back to conclude 22 23 in hindsight possibly we should have tried to keep the two in tandem.and given what we now know
the plans are in place to do the closedown for 23 24 in the usual three-month timescale, so I suspect we're gonna be in a world of sitting down in the summer with the auditors with his 2023 and his 23 24, how are we gonna go about this, so I think yes they're out there now they are the results for the year.
align with the management accounts that we we reported back last summer, so we haven't changed our position in that in that timescale, so I think there is some assurance there, but I think just to say we are committing to ensure we're back in an unusual run of things going forward from from here on in, irrespective of what audit work does or doesn't happen will will separate the two and just keeps people trackers as we've previously done.
thank you any more questions on that.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:41:18
because Alistair did you want to?Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars - 0:41:24
I will because otherwise it looks a little odd that you have had a report passed out and I'm just going to gloss over it, so I will do it in all honesty, I think those those questions and the conversation has probably covered most of what, if not all of what I was going to say on the section 1 so there are there are three parts to the report and if you're not familiar with the way thatthese reports are and how I'd like to report it, at where we're not bringing a formal report like an audit plan or an audit completion report, and bring something like this one, and so it sets out what's the progress with your your audit in in a section 1 and then in section 2 what else is going on in the sector that is of interest to you?
that when you've got an electronic copy, there's a hyperlink, you can click and go one reader and an article from B and A 0 or D-lock, or whoever that I think is of of interest and relevance and you might not have picked up on, I think in those conversations and discussions and questions I've probably covered all one of what was in section 1, which was covering the consultation and the likely impact on the the Combined Authority, is looking at the value for money reporting and saying that we will have that finished for a multi year by the end of March and you'll get that
before your next committee meeting.
so I add that the items in section 2, I'm more than happy to take any questions on any of it Chair, but I don't think it, I don't think there's anything, but I want to especially draw out as worthy of mention to you but happy to take anything any supplementary, to appreciating that you've only just seen it. You probably don't have
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:43:01
any detailed questions that has anybody got any questions I happened because there's some chance to digest it, but can I just say as a follow-up if there are any subsequent to the meeting, feel free to contact me outside of the meeting, if there are any questions that you've gotten, you want me to pick up on, please do9 Treasury Management
Alistair Newall (Auditor) Mazars - 0:43:20
either through Angela all my e-mail addresses in there directly feel free to I'm happy to pick up outside of the meeting questions fully, thank you and I will forward the paper electronically, continuedDebbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:43:27
Kelly, Holmes links and I'd agree with her that's good, thank you veryAngela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:43:31
much OK, so if nothing else on that we'll move on to agenda item 9 and that's the update on Treasury Management in Los Angeles.Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:43:44
it is nothing hugely different to report front from last time and weAngela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:43:48
we had talked previously about the changes in some of theperformance indicators and the
the enhanced reporting required to comply with requirements in those discussions the Committee wanted some further training and we have been in discussions with our treasury advisors, at least Councillor happy to do that and given the timing though they were unable to to to fit it in at the moment and we suggest we do it in the summer when we were aware of who is going to be on this committee and will do it as part of the
getting the committee up and running again in the new municipal municipal year,
in the meantime,
I say not a lot has changed, we were still carrying some some cash balances, we are looking at an opportunity to potentially repay some debts prematurely, which will yield some short term savings.
but beyond that it it is a bit of business as usual. On the the Treasury side we have recommitted to bringing all the Treasury arrangements together, it's been a piece of work on our on our agenda, it's been pushed aside a little bit whilst we've put the new finance system in but we're hoping to pick that up again and just bring all that under one one roof rather than it be shared, it will make it more efficient for us but otherwise happy to take questions if anything I've missed Gary.
Gary Dowson, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:45:13
I don't think so I think you're the only other thing to say is that thethe strategy hasn't hasn't changed at all, over the last year, we're looking to internalize our cash balances as much as we possibly can, which will reduce the need for borrowing as far as we can, which which has to two benefits, one it reduces our counterparty risk of investment and it also reduces our risk of interest rate.
fluctuations, so that's that's if we were, where we are or think in terms of the strategy.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:45:48
thank you, any questions were just to request on presentation, you couldn't possibly just puts a paragraph of narrative under the graph, could you just say, flicking backwards and forwards?thank you.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:46:05
case I move on to agenda item 10, that's to consider any changes to the internal control.10 Compliance and Monitoring
and received an update on the regularly regulatory requirements and internal control so that Caroline, thank you, it is thank you, Chair
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:46:21
me, this is a report that I think it's its third iteration in this form with a dashboard to this committee now so hopefully there's some it's it's starting to look a little more familiar in terms of the content.at the the recover report seeks to pull out some of some of the key points.
to draw to your attention, but there may be other aspects that Members want to to raise queries or comments on.
both in terms of our internal what's happened internally since our last meeting, I think we reported last time on the CIA anywhere which was implemented in the third on the 13th of November, which is our integrated finance HR, and payroll system. That's obviously going through it's not a big, you know a one one hit and it's all in so that is going through its implementation phases and, as the report says at 2.00.3 we're looking forward there's an officer steering group and looking to implement a learning, management and talent management module in 2024, so that's very much ties in with our our workforce development plans.
as part of that, the work that the report then goes on to highlight some of the the key, the key matters, to be drawn from the dashboard, first one there is on ICT, and in highlighting the fact that we were the target of multiple distributed denial of service attacks on our public facing journey planning website in November in you know in Surrey in the autumn I think we had ICT, we had our Head of ICT here at our last meeting so I think there was an opportunity to to be verbally updated on that.
but this sets out some some more of the detail around that, and I think it was confirmed at the last meeting that we do have a new cybersecurity Manager in post, so that is a that is a key move forward for, as I think in terms of that the just wanted to flag on the health and safety and confirms this that there has been no reduce over the last two years but it does highlight there at 2.00.6 point 5 that the beginning of January the Authority took the precautionary measure to close Bradford Interchange Bus Station to safeguard public safety and are as many of you will know, that the interchange remains closed at the present time and whilst survey work and another reviews are undertaken there.
there is a temporary bus station solution in place, and that is monitored, that is kept under close review and monitoring by our transport directorate, and we are working very closely with Bradford Council in terms of trying to minimise the disruption that flows from that and make sure we've got joint plans in place.
train services remain unaffected by that, but it was important to bring it to this committee's attention.
I don't think there's there's nothing significant that Elsa I would draw to your attention.
from that the information is in the report there, we do have alternated to Gary at the moment in terms of the financial update element of this, but I don't know whether members want do you prefer me cheered pause at that point in terms of the dashboard deal clarify
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:49:39
certain questions as a second part, thank you yes,members, any questions on the dashboard.
no, she might stop, and so as usual.
there was a strange Collinson, and I just wondered if you could just expand on its about reduction in complaints, since schools went back, is there are trends that are passing yeah time of year or so, yes, Chair the last, the last dashboard that came showed a spike in
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:50:10
complaints and it's it's it's a sick, it happens every September, I think when the schools go back and there's lots of queries and complaints around new bus arrangements, things for the passage of schoolchildren so we hit the transport director at a spike of queries and complaints, it all settles down, everybody gets to know what they're doing and then the complaints subside again. Okay,so we are in January, when we said that the spike is is due to that and it will drop it, and it has since dropped, so I thank you is that with regards to the cyberattacks, does our insurance cover us against any aspect of cyber attacks and if so are we compliant with any conditions?
I know some do and some don't we haven't we, we don't you don't carry cybersecurity insurance, I think it's just getting.
it's just getting to the discipline preference exactly yeah yeah, we have looked into it but it just and it just doesn't keep up with, I think it's just one of those areas where, as you say, you will constantly be changing and that insurance would be out of date but no it's not something we carry out and can I am just wondering what and then the final question for me is about court committees.
that position is looking to get increasingly challenging since it, with the numbers are going up for the number of in court committees, and I'm just very concerned really about the impact, because we don't have core committees, we've probably not getting the right challenge
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:51:43
at the right meetings, is there anything that is being done about that?we've.
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:51:53
one element of our in court committees around our scrutiny committees.and of course, as as you know, Chair, we are, we've a review has just been undertaken by the Scrutiny Members themselves as part of a working group, to look at how we implement the government's scrutiny protocol and one of the recommendations in there is that we move to a single Committee as opposed to the three committees we currently have, so that isn't just looking at Councillor Anderson, that is something which will be coming to the overview, the Corporate Scrutiny Committee at its meeting tomorrow for consideration and is before the Combined Authority next week. But we do hope we not just hope we are aiming to look at the measures we put in place, not just about how many committees but the other measures we put in place around supporting members making it
I suppose, just looking at the profile of that and how we can make it more engaging and increased quorum for that, so there is a number of measures around scrutiny committee which we're looking to develop, I think that that has been one of those one of the three committees in particular has been difficult to ensure the courtesy of
but we, we have had other inquiries meetings as well, and I think we have to we know we we do need to it's a really tricky one, because a lot of our members do travel some distance to come to these meetings, you know there are, there are various reasons why the courtesy issue remains a challenge was
I think we just need to look at how we can best engage with members in terms of the setting the calendar of meetings as far as we can, although that is often inevitably tricky around diaries, but how can we do something, how can we get the time of meetings to make sure we have the best chance of getting it coarsely, so I think it is an ongoing challenge for us but a game will need to keep that under review this year.
is there anything we can learn from any others combined authorities I
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:53:53
mean, are we unusual in this respect, is it common problem Wadsworth is doing it, but it's it, it is, or it is a common problem and I think,Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:54:04
during the pandemic, when we did when combined authorities ran meetings in either enacting well, it was, it was all virtual, wasn't it, the courtesy issue, of course, wasn wasn't a problem, it wasn't the need to engage, it was actually the practicalities of people all being able to come together at certain times, so we're not alone my counterparts in other combined authorities we regularly have these conversations about what can we do?but it's not, it's not unusual because it's or wherever that wider geography and it brings its challenges, but but we do continue with, we've got a very good or developing network, I think, over combined authorities in terms of sharing best practice, so it is one of the things we continue to review.
thank you.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:54:49
so should we move on to the finance suspects?thank you, Jo, so the revenue position at the end of quarter 3,
Gary Dowson, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:54:57
broadly in line with budget, as it was at the end of quarter, two all shown a small net surplus.the you will notice there are variations between income and expenditure lines, as a previously explained, and that is mainly due to timing of income and expenditure against the budget that is phased in 12th.
so there was, or was a mismatch there were, what we will be doing is facing budget.
more appropriately from next financial year, so those timings should go away in terms of capital spend, and the spend at Q3 is is very much in line with what we've experienced in previous years, so there was an that there is always a ramp up over the last quarter of the financial year saw we are confident that the full year forecast will be hit.
thank you any questions on that.
K
11 Risk Management
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:55:53
thank you 7 No, we've had an update on nuts and that takes us to our final agenda item and which is Corporate Risk and just reminder on this one, it's been agreed that public be excluded during consideration of appendix 2, so if we can just consider the cover paper in Appendix 1 please,who is taken up on that as the Chair, thank you.
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:56:25
just sorry, jagged handover, we tried to get you or a larger scale size of appendix 2, it's still very, very tidy because it's a PDF, since I think it's one of those documents that's easy to see on screen because you can do the clever you consume it in but it's a bit Richard him as a hard copy.how, however, I digress so we, we have the risk item here and members have in front of them at Appendix 1 a copy of the Corporate Risk Register snapshot from when that was done for this meeting together with Appendix 2, which has the elements of that that have been redacted together with the with the action plan so as the report says we've one new risk has been added to our corporate risk register since the Committee last saw this and that's generally in relation to security, so that is sort of around people and assets and as as I say that we've got the detail of that in exempt appendix 2,
I, I would say it is really.
I think it's reflecting, I think, it again, it's probably a precautionary risk identified on the need to ensure that that we sort of focus on the mitigation and it's a recognition of what we're seeing in terms of the national picture.
more so than than anything specific, as that's happened here in terms of the need to put that on.
we, we have 12 risks currently on the risk register, 2 medium 9 high and one very high, and the very high risk remains the one relating to cybersecurity, which has been there throughout when we set out in section 2.7 onwards, the risks those risks where we believe the rating will reduce from high to medium following completion of all the mitigations that we put in place and legislation literally drawn out there extracts from the Corporate Risk Register.
we should probably more easily read in the risk register themselves, I think.
and one of the risks on the risk register at which is see our corporate risk re corporate risk, ILT number 11 you'll see on their relates to bus reform, and I just wanted to highlight to the committee this was a risk relating to.
the need to make sure we had the right resources in place to get the proposal to a point at which the mayor could make a decision as to whether to proceed with making a franchising scheme or to or for us to look at an old to an alternative proposal that decision is intended to be made at a meeting of the Combined Authority next Thursday so that risk,
you know that that risk will then be the narrative around that we reviewed obviously an update in terms of where that takes us into for the next phase, so that will be a future change that that Members will see on this risk register, so I shall stop there because it's probably more productive
foot to answer any questions that Members have, thank you.
any questions from anyone on the risk register.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 0:59:48
yeahthank you Chair.
Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee - 0:59:55
just looking at the risk register, I concede a couple of items that are Rachael listed as issues rather than risk are these actually occurring now?c are double 0 5 and 7.
yes.
but we treat the right risks because we need to act rate mitigations in response to them, but they are the first one, which is 5 is an ongoing issue around the funding landscape, across local government
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:00:33
and instability in the political climate and the fact that, because of the way combined authorities are funded it's very difficult to plan a long way in advance, so that is an issue.and then the second one 7,
yeah, it's about the funding situation in the bus market, sorry, yes, it is, it is an issue, we took a view, because you can get very purist about these things about, you know, it's something a risk, or is it an issue sometimes it's both you know, it's an ongoing issue that carries out the the that you treat like a risk
and so that's why we've that's why we've kept it in one place for simplicity, for it really okay.
sorry to the question when it mentioned at the top of the paper that
Joanna Wardman (Independent Member) Governance & Audit Committee - 1:01:22
the risk register has been reviewed and the date of the last few games on the register could I just ask what that involves other than the best gardener and the sponsor is there anybody or independent from that business area that's involved who actually looks at what mitigations are proposed as they actually if effective, are there the right mitigations?Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:01:50
so the risk register initially is reviewed by the owner as you as you suggest, but then the entire risk register then goes to the whole of the leadership team and it formally comes to our internal leadership board, where we consider it and directors challenge each other around the extent to which mitigations are necessary or appropriate and that are them and theand that's about it's about the content, but it's also about the process which has led to the bit on the right-hand side of the risk register being added about by.
the the kind of the the assumed future risks Risk rating once the mitigations have been put in put in place, so, yes, there is a there is, there is a cut across colleague challenge.
the next point, of course, is to bring it here, whereas then challenged, and you can challenge us as to whether you think the mitigations were appropriate or otherwise, and then the final thing to add is that in a slightly similar position to bronze statement beginning about her having a business case for internal audit, similarly Caroline has a business case around bolstering our capacity for risk management given the scale of the public funding that the organisation is now responsible for and the scaling up of our major programmes.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 1:03:13
sir, can I just pick here, for it is set then so the likelihood, following mitigation, you just said that's when things are put in place, so those things aren't in place at this point in time is that right?as correct so so.
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:03:30
so the column, which is headed existing mitigations, which is kind of in the middle just before you get to the the coloured rating that stuff that we've already done.that then results in the current level of rating,
and then there's a further column, which is further mitigations, and those are things which are either in train or haven't been completed yet, and then we go into a once, though once those things are are complete, then the next colour columns are expected rating, so the things that are it we we sorry we could number the columns but the the the column which says further mitigations, including dates of actions that those are things that are either in progress or need to be done but on complete yet.
for that makes complete sense so.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 1:04:29
in terms of this committee and getting assurance that those actions are being implemented and they're not just sitting there on a risk registers and to do less, and it's not getting done, how do we get that level of assurance?Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:04:44
so we have done that for the very high risk which is in the appendix we haven't done it with the others, so the the the the very sorry, I'm about to go into itthe
private appendix
sorry, I realise them back yeah I just think it's important that if it
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 1:05:09
if there's a T it that's your to do list around risk management, then we need to know how that is progressing for for all of your top 10 or whatever it is risks indeed, and the idea is that you move things from that column over to the left yeah and then they appear on the left-hand side we have your right, we haven't presented to the committee an action plan that goes into the dates whenever, when all of thewhen all of the mitigations will be in place, we have done that for the FA, where there are very high risks and it just so happens that the very high risk.
that we've done it for is also in the is in the exempt appendix that said, if a very high risk were to, if we were to assess a risk, is very high in the future. The intention would then be to put together the action plan and show it to the committee in more detail, in the same way that the the
the risk that's very high is exempt because of its nature, the subject, not because it's a very high risk, yet the next says yes, thank you.
OK, if there's no more questions on that, then we can move, because I'm sorry, Councillor Decker, it wasn't a question so much as a comment on what he'd said about how it's easier to following the risk
Cllr Silvia Dacre (Calderdale Council) - 1:06:22
register and it was, I didn't find the text where it just had this pulled out at all helpful, it was nothing better to be able to see as it moved documentcan you correct, I think you correct, I think we future iterations we
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:06:36
want, we won't include that, thank you, sorry, could I just also say that presumably when you're talking about the way you chair, we'reCllr Silvia Dacre (Calderdale Council) - 1:06:46
talking about, how do we know that it's being done presumably to some extent because this would come back again?and therefore we would see whether actually it was now.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 1:06:57
we we moved on I'm thinking if there's something to make it easier for this committee to recognise that otherwise we might find ourselves having to refer to previous papers, to sorts of see the progress and track it through.Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:07:14
the Chair will give that some some thought, I think we think the intention has always been there to to expand the action plan across the other risks and we're starting with a very high risk, but you right, we need to look a little bit of time to do it before the next committees to is to look at how we can actually make that easier for this committee to readily track.I'll take that away, thank you.
Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 1:07:35
yes, Councillor Davies, specific reference to working out the service.Debbie Simpson, Chair (Independent Member) - 1:07:46
OK, thank you, if it's not solid questions on that, if we can coalesce parts of the meetings were closed and moved to private sessions.- G&A Draft Minutes - 16 October 2023, opens in new tab
- 110124 - G&A Notes - 11 January 2024 (INQUORATE), opens in new tab
- Item 6 - Internal Audit Progress Report, opens in new tab
- Item 6 - Appendix 1 Internal Audit Progress Update, opens in new tab
- Item 7 - Internal Audit Plan 2024-25, opens in new tab
- Item 7 - Appendix 1 Internal Audit Plan 24-25, opens in new tab
- Item 8 - External Audit Report, opens in new tab
- Item 8 - Appendix 1, opens in new tab
- Item 8 - Appendix 2, opens in new tab
- Item 9 - Treasury Management, opens in new tab
- Item 9 - Treasury Management Appendix 1, opens in new tab
- Item 9 - Treasury Management Appendix 2, opens in new tab
- Item 10 - Compliance and Monitoring, opens in new tab
- Item 10 - Appendix 1 Compliance Dashboard, opens in new tab
- Item 11 - Risk Management, opens in new tab
- Item 11 - Appendix 1 CRR, opens in new tab
