Corporate Scrutiny Committee - Friday 19 January 2024, 10:00am - Feedback Tab - West Yorkshire Combined Authority Webcasting

Corporate Scrutiny Committee
Friday, 19th January 2024 at 10:00am

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Speaking:

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Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)

1 Apologies for absence

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Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)

5 Chair's comments and update

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6 Level 4 Devolution

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Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
Cllr Aneela Ahmed
Cllr Alun Griffiths
Cllr Andrew Waller (York Council)
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr David Nunns
Cllr Tony Hames
Cllr Mike Barnes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Cllr Alun Griffiths
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Alun Griffiths
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Alun Griffiths
Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council)
Cllr Alun Griffiths
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Alun Griffiths
Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Andrew Waller (York Council)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Mike Barnes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Aneela Ahmed
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Tony Hames
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Alun Griffiths
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Aneela Ahmed
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Betty Rhodes
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Alun Griffiths
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Tony Hames
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Tony Hames
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr David Nunns
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Aneela Ahmed
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Cllr Richard Forster
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)

7 Work Programme

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8 Date of the next meeting - 1 March 2024

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Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:00:00

to other meetings elsewhere, and does anybody know what the weather is gonna be late by the time we're finished yet?

I took a

I don't honestly know myself so anyway, right, so welcome to the Corporate Scrutiny Committee 4 January we'll go through the first parts of the agenda OK.

apologies for absence,

1 Apologies for absence

Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:00:29

apologies from Paul Ray Rohit Khan Gill Lawson, Moses Crook, Ralph Berry, with Councillor Ahmed, any enactment.

substituting apologies from Councillor Samantha Harvey with Councillor Tony Haim, substituting and apologies from Susan Lee Richards, with Andrew Cooper,

this year

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:01:17

originally we were going to have a Mayor's question Time today, but the Mayor has had to go to an important meeting down in Birmingham and I sought she did phone me personally to explain the situation and we dropped through it and as a result of that I said yes, I am happy to postpone them to later on in the year.

then, unfortunately, that has led to some problems for some people in that we now split the meeting into two

and one, I think, it's on the 1st of March or the other one, he is now having to start at 9.00 in the morning because there is a training course taking place in here, because the training course one part, can you remember active bystander active bystander does anybody know,

I know Ben all know what it's about, but I mean it's to do with it is to do with security when there's an attack.

so sorry there's, so that's why it's starting in o'clock because there is a lack of rooms, so if we can bear with the problems that that has caused, and I do acknowledge that so we are here today, this is, in my view one of the exciting times where there is change afoot and at the moment certainly based on the discussion at the Finance meeting yesterday,

yes, we know about it, but it's not set in stone and if we want to try and contribute to improving West Yorkshire, this is an opportunity for us as a Scrutiny Board, but also when we go back to our councils to try and persuade individual councils to have briefings with the rest of our members as to how this could fit in together and more on this as the session goes on.

5 Chair's comments and update

6 Level 4 Devolution

so that's the only comments I've got, so today we're on to Item 6, which is the level for devolution so that on page 7 of your agenda, so Sarah you explained beautifully to finance to a meeting yesterday would you like to just briefly outline what you said yesterday yeah absolutely I'll be happy to do so so in I think, as we discussed at the last Scrutiny Committee, I think it was quite close on the publication of the the level 4 devolution framework.

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:03:55

and we, we did a brief introduction there, didn't, we are at that particular point in time, but just to kind of run through again, the colleagues are that that they're aware of them.

it highlights in terms of what's in that framework, I think it's important to say that this level for devolution frameworks and him important step forward towards a kind of that details of devolution, greater devolved powers for the eligible instituted who choose to apply and participate and and whilst this framework doesn't give us that full level of ambition that we were looking for it does it does give us some you know.

additional powers and flexibilities within it. That will take us to that that onward journey really, so I have just to touch on on some of those things in in better detail. I think, as it sets out in the report, there are some key highlights in there, and I think significantly that the things that we need to be looking at here in terms of at what's important are the the consolidated pots of funding that are set out in the Framework in relation to the kind of the Department's levelling-up housing, communities, activity and also transport. So what the framework will give us our own consolidated pots? That means that we'll have greater flexibility to be able to use those pots of funding around kind of priorities for for West Yorkshire, so that's quite quite an important.

addition, really for us all, as we as we move through this journey, and you'll also see in in in the paper that it reference, for example, you, you've talked about this at your committee last time, removal of gainshare go kind of gateway reviews and that means that will potentially not have to go through as many hurdles in terms of the evaluation framework that we have done previously so some removal of some kind of national

there are candour levels of hoops that we need to jump through to kind of progress, but also in there you'll see that there is a further commitment towards devolved powers for adult skills, so there's activity there in terms of the affordable homes programme it's an opportunity for us to also take up a new concurrent power with local authorities around public health in addition to to candidate the the powers and flexibilities that are on offer in the framework.

what is set out in in in that document is the ability for us to to actually take on any powers that any other areas had access to, so that gives us an opportunity to look at what others have got and say actually, this is something that we would like to be able to take forward it, and I are at it at a point in time in the future. We don't have to deal with that straight away. It's open for us along all along that process and also what's in? There is an opportunity for us to look at, for example, historic kind of statutes. So if there is anything that we think we've currently got, that, is it HRA or receipts been paved in history and on the way things have changed? There's an opportunity for us to challenge that and say, actually, we think if we remove this power or or this piece of technical guidance that would, that would help us in an example of that is around roundabouts, the location of roundabouts and is actually a decision that's taken by

secretary of State, so that if, if we could remove that power, that would mean that we could make that decision more locally, so that's just one example of some of the things that we might want to look up as we move forward in terms of what what's on offer there any organisation that's applying for level 4 devolution deal can pick the elements that they want to take forward.

in terms of transport and skills. You either take everything or nothing, so there is some conditions around which bits of the framework we want to take forward and if we want to apply, we need to apply by the 31st of January this year, and the reason for that is to kind of move at speed if we want to try and get something agreed before the next general election, that this is the time to do it, so we could apply later, but that would mean we would potentially have to wait, and I think the level of ambition in the area is such that we want to make sure that we're demonstrating that to government and say you know we are a trusted partner and want to take this further

so just in terms of in the work that we've been taking place in the area, we've been working quite closely with local authorities.

and at pace to try and understand what what's on offer through the level 4 deal, also to see if it kind of matches our ambitions, and that's a really key point, I think, to make the you know any any move towards the pollution has got to match what we want in West Yorkshire you know it's not just taking things for the sake of taking things,

you'll note.

as Councillor Anderson has just mentioned, the

yesterday, at the the finance and resources committee, there was a consideration of an agreement really to to kind of submit a letter.

to that deadline kind of setting out our intention to kind of progress. So that was what was agreed by the Committee yesterday. What that means is that we kind of enter into canon negotiations with government. That's not any eroded cow can't say they expect an irrevocable step. I get tongue-tied when I say that bit but but it's not footpaths statutory purpose, it's just or signaller our intent and, and that's the first stage of this process as we move forward, and it's subject to development work, that we then need to do on the individual elements of of the framework and what you're seeing the framework. There's a bit of a spectrum of things in Nasa. There are some offers that around entering into partnership, which might not need very much negotiation at all, but there are others in there, for example, the concurrent power with public health, which which would mean we'd have to go out to consultation on that. So there's a varying degree of things that would need to do is not the same process for everything that that's on offer, in that

so that's kind of just just in terms of framework or where we're are, I think, it's important in the paper we have set out something about West Yorkshire partnership principles as we as we start to move towards the next level of the devolution journey.

we need to make sure that our partnership kind of develops an and kind of evolves alongside candidate the new powers and flexibilities that might be on offer, so what we've been doing alongside the discussions around the framework we'd been talking to local councils about how we might work better together moving forward, so you'll see in that we were starting to review and refresh the principles that we've previously been working to to make sure that we that partnership is is is getting to that next level and that is a really important part of the work that we're doing to to make sure that the partnership, the core partnership of sickies, is kind of moving collectively together forward and you know,

and it is collectively doing this, yeah, we're doing this.

not just about the Combined Authority in that sense.

so, in terms of next steps, obviously it was discussed at FCC yesterday,

if the decision to proceed with an application takes place, further detailed work will need to happen, and you'll see in the paper that there's a number of readiness conditions that we need to me and one for yourselves today, I think an important part of that is around the Scrutiny protocol which I'll just come on to.

but that is an important piece of work that will need to take place over this coming period will then be taken another paper to the Combined Authority on the 1st of February not just to make sure that we've got oversight at that at that level, to the proposals that were taken forward and if we decide to proceed then you know the councils will be taking that to their they'll be taken that through their their own committees to to kind of make sure that they've kind of ratified the decision that was made F or CC yesterday and, as I've said, we'll then doing that further detailed work. An officer will keep come in and and updating where the broader progress that that is happening as we move along just in terms of the scrutiny protocol

that's attached to the to the paper that was developed in consultation with Scrutiny officers, chairs and members nationwide, and I think we've had some involvement, the D-lock, in terms of developing that that paper it is a key factor in terms of influence in that level 4 framework, so as those powers kind of more powers come down that scrutiny frameworks gonna be really important in terms of making sure that we we provide that assurance to government their content really,

once we've written to the secretary well once we've kind of signed up to the to the the proposals, we will need to them right back to the secretary of state within a year to say that we're taking up those proposals, I think locally what we've agreed to want to do is we want to kind of accelerate that process and I think we discussed last time that opportunity to kind of review the protocol and actually report back to the UN's annual meeting in June, so we're actually kind of wanting to take this for further forward, I think you know not wait a year until we've kinda signed up

and I think you'll see in the paper there that the the 18 key principles are all set out there, there are two additional principles that we need to work to re, and one of them is relating to the committee structure and obviously that is around proposals potentially to move to a single structure but also that mayor's question time and we started to implement that process as well, the first Mayor's question time is taking place in Wakefield on the 25th of January we've got some other

question times kind of plunged in before March unintended the Scrutiny protocol working group, I think at the last meeting that that group was agreement to form, that group was formed, sorry and I think you're you're intending on meeting on the 29th of February at 29th January, the 15th of February to kind of take forward this work, all and kind of come up with some recommendations and I think the plan there is centre to kind of take that to the next Scrutiny Committee, but also then for us to agree Canada's recommendations at the next day in March. So I'll stop talking now I think that's a quick run-through of the paper, but yeah right. Thank you very much know what we'll do now

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:13:31

is push people who are looking at me, wonder who is speaking half the time, so what we'll do, it will go round the table and we'll just briefly introduce himself and Councillor Barry Anderson, our Councillor from Leach, and I chair this particular Scrutiny Board

Kelly, Brougham Scrutiny Officer.

Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:13:48

Councillor Neil Ahmed I'm from Bradford.

Cllr Aneela Ahmed - 0:13:53

Alan Griffiths also from Bradford.

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:13:58

Councillor Dobson, Leeds City Council.

Councillor Andrew Wallace to York.

Cllr Andrew Waller (York Council) - 0:14:07

Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:10

Caroline Allen Deputy Director, a legal governance and compliance here at the CA.

Sarah Newton, director of strategy, communications and intelligence for this year.

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:19

and so cheap, as I can see it.

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:22

unreasonably cooperating officer C A.

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:24

Angela Taylor, Director Finance and Commercial Services at the CA.

Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:27

David Jones, Councillor from Bradford

Cllr David Nunns - 0:14:32

Richard Foster the Councillor from Wakefield, thank you.

Cllr Tony Hames - 0:14:41

John games, council, from Wakefield substitute for Councillor Samantha lobby today.

my answer, Councillor Oliver.

Cllr Mike Barnes - 0:14:50

Brendan Wandsworth, councillor for Calderdale.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:15:13

what I proposed introduced to go through on effectively on page 8, where you've got the different areas, will go through them one by one by one, but one question that maybe we get one for Ben to start to the trailblazers.

why have they not offered West Yorkshire the trailblazer option?

I note your disappointment at that, but they didn't offer it, do you know the reasons, why, and is there anything more that we can contribute to to enable you to get to that level?

NICC questions is dealt with Councillor, thank you, but you wish to

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:15:56

thank you for that and so I would argue that the reason that we are having this conversation today and and the reason that we are now looking at the the level 4 framework is as a result of that question being asked to the government over the course of end of last year as to why was it that only the West Midlands or Greater Manchester were were given trailblazer status? I think for for a former Lindsay you'd have to ask the government because none of us actually understand.

but it was certainly based upon the Government's perception around the readiness and the maturity of those two areas, but I put it that way and probably as much as I can, I can say, the the the framework, however, is a result of the the, I think that the recognition within the departments that other places are also ready and also sufficiently which are for for for trailblazer status, but there were two problems. The first was effectively that the trailblazer deals came with funding for those two areas and,

essentially the government departments didn't have all said they didn't have sufficient any sufficient funding to go with a further round of trailblazer deals, and the second was that the their trailblazer deals,

in the sense that government wanted to test particular types of devolution in those areas, first before broadening it out for other eligible institutions and, as you can imagine.

staff in West Yorkshire without

so so we were pushing, as as a group of combined authorities, the World Trailblazers to.

to see what the government could do around, providing that the essence of the of the status without some of the funding, if that wasn't available, and the result is the framework, and I think the framework is, as Sarah has said, doesn't offer many of the things that,

is a new way for the government to engage with local places, on devolution, through having a a a a a checklist of powers that are on offer and allowing places to pick and choose those that are right for their individual circumstances in their individual places, and one that takes away always intended to take away some of the bespoke deal making behind closed doors, which I think was becoming onerous for government, and one is not great from a transparency and accountability perspective. So we were pleased with the way that the the the the the the government has set out the framework and this move towards assessing readiness and place he'd been able to pick and choose from from a list. The challenge with that is that

it's the government decides what's on the list, so so we are still actively lobbying for those things that we think are important for the kind of devolution that we want in in West Yorkshire, reflecting the fact that that West Yorkshire is five large local authorities very individual challenges needs incentive of place. The devolution that that would work well here from central government is a different kind of devolution that that that might work well in a place that is mum or centric like like Greater Manchester or Cambridge and Peterborough, etc so so we're always trying to make sure that devolution works in its in its locality.

I hope that answers the question.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:19:38

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:19:42

yes, and the funding element, I think if you have a large portfolio to rush through there for us today.

and it's not, it's not.

overly clear what the funding element is going to be, if any, when I look at this in terms of amend the removal of the gainshare, et cetera, which has been a good element of funding, what is going to help, such as ever combined authority in funding mechanisms to take on the extra responsibilities that will come with devolution, there's obviously revenue consequences and I'm going to come back to this in terms of capacity.

is that something that has been discussed or not being discussed in terms of looking at the framework and moving forward, I have a few more if you wouldn't mind like the answers as we go along Chair, thank you.

what you have.

just in terms of the there's, there's no additional funding on offer through this level 4 devolution deal, I think, because it has been just highlighted, I think, at what is on offer, if the opportunity to

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:20:49

to pull together discrete pots of funding that we might get into one place which then gives us the flexibility to kind of administer and deploy those resources.

in a way that fits our priorities for West Yorkshire and the problem with having lots of different funding pots of money with different timescales that means equates quite a lot of

administrative burden in kind of managing that, but it also means that we were not able to kind of deploying move those resources around the properties that we might have on a on a on a annual or or multiannual basis. I think that that is a really important bit of this framework that we feel would be of benefit to this area, so that's the kind of in terms of the funding it, so it's almost like funding simplification million. In that respect, I think it's we were not removing the gainshare funding. I think what is set out there is removing there the kind of the current gateway reviews that we have to to hit to kind of proof that we're managing the resources and the funded properly. So so I think it'll ask committee you, you had a paper that set out the amount of work that we needed to do to pass through and that that gateway review and that's in order for us to kindergarten show that with we can't have from delivering one

yes, for today, the Government's satisfaction.

to remove some level of burden of bureaucracy around that it doesn't mean that we don't have to re-evaluate what we do and measure the impact, but we don't have to do that to the candidate governments and then so to shorten the answer gloomsters, no funding extra extra capacity to deal with whatever the implications of DeVoe 4 are.

Ben you're shaking your head, I think these are just things that for

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:22:36

the lay people here amongst us who haven't had the opportunity like this, which I am grateful for, just to delve into that forest as well, because when I look at the paper here on the key highlights employment and skills housing and land,

and I'll make this a broad sweep statement to all the people who want to come in, I'm sure I wasn't able to attend the last meeting of the meeting before that Alan here gave a report in terms of housing and land and the issue that we discussed at that particular meeting was that the Combined Authority had only managed to achieve re from and just over 7,000 houses.

because of you identified shortage of skills, et cetera, et cetera.

so in terms of all these activities here through a diesel transport, we know about employment and skills, I'll just take the Dow, the housing issue, for instance here in land, what's going to change then in May, to enable the housing situation and land to improve on the numbers that you couldn't improve as a combined authority now and going into a devil for deal.

if I could take both of those together, that'd be useful, as in terms of this part.

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:23:51

does thank you, so so I think, just to answer the critics really clearly there is no funding of any sort attached to a Liverpool devolution deal at this point in time, and it does mean that there won't be the case, there will be something different in the future.

but at the moment this this comes with no funding, capital or or or revenue.

the the benefits that that Sarah has talked about are benefits to existing funding streams,

and they are things that I would expect our teams to be able to manage within their day-to-day work, so I'll give you an example related to housing, so the brownfield housing fund is a fund that, because of the rules that are attached to that fund and has proven difficult for for for some developers in some areas to bring forward viable projects that that allow us to approve those because of the rule set around the fund we're explicitly asking for those rules to be changed for the funding to be devolved to us and that,

place to Sarah's point, if that was the case, that would allow us to make more from the funding that we've got, rather than have the risk of that money being clawed back by government, but actually also if it became clear that we were going to underspend on a certain programme such as that one, we could redeploy that funding for something else, so those flexibilities are really important, it effectively amounts to new money if we're able to use the money more effectively and deliver better outputs as a result of it.

Back to Alan

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:25:25

it, it would be seen to be a better use of funding from a local authority coming across to the Combined Authority and you saying you can do that with a stay in the same revenue consequences,

to so.

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:25:42

S, it's, if I may, it's a complex picture, because the the government this week announced a set of funding simplifications for all of local government, and so the the ability to move money between different funding pots and the ability to avoid comp competitive processes by having an allocation the first of those is something that we hope will become an offer to all authorities.

and to allow them, if we wanted to be able to achieve the kinds of things that I've talked, about, the second around being to step outside of competitive processes and receiving allocation because of level 4 status is only available to those places that have Liverpool status. We would hope that that would apply to competitions that run by central government, both for low for all parts of local government, not just combined authorities, but there's a lot of detail in how this will work. That's yet to be worked through with with government, as Sarah says, in effect, the this is us it expressing interest in carrying on the conversation about what could be achieved locally

the Chair,

back would benefit outlined, so lastly, the ethos of law is the

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:26:50

assumption at this stage, because one of the issues of concern, obviously in terms of one of the regions here, is, as we mentioned earlier, Sara, if you take one over you might necessarily not want part of it but you've got to do take it over anyway.

the ethos, then Chair, is that the assumption of all of this is that this is going to be a process.

by which devolved agreed devolved areas by waiver.

is going to be more efficient.

it's going to avoid the present situation with governments.

in timescales for grants, as we all know, sometimes, as you know, is wheelchair and everybody, we only get a month's notice of what a funding pot may be and the expression is Well, you couldn't take the money, so it's that kind of background that you're looking into in terms of the Deveau 4.

and I know that yesterday it says that the resources committees, this is why I brought this one up.

discuss the proposed submission and decide the next steps, whether to submit an application letter to the secretary of state, there are other issues that I've marked out here, but I don't want to hog a blank, the protocol, for instance, and that last statement as well but I'll open it up to others chair because they might have the same questions as I have thank you.

thank you just want to tease out the funding issues and I feel free to

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:28:24

correct me if I've got the floor and got yet there, there is no new money, there is an expectation, there will be some efficiencies and reduction in in bureaucrat in in costs because of the simplification of the processes you have to undergo.

to a certain extent, I would expect those to be out to be, if not completely outweighed but partially diminished by the additional an administration. Bureaucracy should be involved in taking on the other areas of the that are providing the devolution settlement. So, and I think the first question I would rue I would want to ask is, are you confident that the savings are less than margin on more than marginal savings in administrative terms and that there will not be significantly outweighed by the additional costs taking off, taking up with the other other areas and the secondly, this was the first point I was going to make but that he raised these issues, which have over a very worth of teasing out, is that clearly, one of the benefits seen of the devolution is the the the flexibility of funding and the best of the ability to vire funds between across towards priorities and, of course, you can only via things in one direction if it could be away from another direction. I think the question I would like to ask is having given that you are thinking, Yes, this is something we would like to do, because we see benefits from it. Where would you

where would you foresee what areas will be treated as less priorities, and then the money might be able to be removed from those areas in order to to benefit issue areas which are seen as being a great priority?

thank you too great question questions.

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:30:09

so so can we be, can we be certain upfront now that the the savings and the efficiencies generated will outweigh the costs of additional requirements in terms of administration?

I think we can be relatively confident because the majority of these areas are areas in which the Combined Authority, as part, was already working, and the the addition of greater flexibility should not lead to greater administration, that there are one or two areas in here, particularly particularly things in the transport space.

that we put it pretty bluntly, we were not asking for, but a part of the part of the deal, there would be new, and that that would incur additional or additional costs. That then raises the question of if government is requiring us to do something to do just the new burdens doctrine kick in or other other mechanisms as part of the negotiations, that we would that we would seek to use with government to ensure that there was no greater burden on

local taxpayers for these for these functions, so so I think we are at a very early stage, some of the proper answers to these questions will come, as we understand exactly what the implications of this are for us, and that's why it's important to recognise that at this point no leader that comma an authority the may have not agreed to implement any of this where we are continually it's the next step in the negotiation.

so does anybody want to come in on that?

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:31:49

right okay, Mr Griff, Councillor Griff, do you want to come back here?

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:31:56

Just briefly, I just just soha picked upon and I'm sure misunderstood he said that the base the transport settlement you would want to take on because there were then they would have considerable expense attached to them, but I'm just reading over access to transport pass must be taken as a whole and there's no ability to pick and choose, as I am missing out of a missing something that

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:32:20

that is the Government's position we are still negotiating yeah, it would be probably the simplest.

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:32:31

sorry, talking about government and finance is just sentimental footfall for the Saudi giggles or hysteria I haven't quite worked out which, when it is yet, but it was really interesting to hear what

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council) - 0:32:40

Councillor Roads and Councillor Griffiths said, because.

all our local authorities at a time of financial crisis are struggling.

our authority has had 2.5 billion pounds stripped from it since since 2010, and I'm sure all my colleagues, of whatever political persuasion, will say exactly the same thing, and we're perfectly aware that the government offer pots of funding to come in to local authorities for specific projects with no notice whatsoever expecting you to deliver them overnight, so I'm really surprised to hear that they now introducing simple rules.

that will allow you to move money around when, and it takes one control, freak to know another one when they have controlled, are our spending, by offering the single pots for specific projects, and so I would just sound a note of caution over that one because it has never ever happened in my knowledge before that people are allowed to move pots of money around.

but if you're taking over responsibilities for areas from local authorities and other bodies.

are you sure that that will not destabilise other services within local authorities, our budgets are set very carefully to make sure that the most vulnerable are protected and so on, but we have other responsibilities around transport with delivering the

the active travel schemes and so on, which I noticed and will come on to to later, so there is this thing about taking over services from somebody else and making sure that they're actually holistic and and all of the word assumption we're talking here as though things are actually a fact and there's not a lot of assumptions going on here about what might happen and although they're probably educated guesses because you dealt with this often before it's really hard to know what to do when you're assuming things are gonna go one way and we just don't know.

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:34:53

thank you, sir, so I just have a couple of things and anything both improvements coming as well, the the the funding simplification, I

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:34:58

think you are absolutely right to be cautious and perhaps a little sceptical, it is the heart of the two trailblazers in Greater Manchester and the West Midlands that their funding streams or many of them get consolidated into a single pot and they have a degree of ability to move money between them and what's on offer through the level 4 and deal is all kind of limited version of that within individual government departments so,

so because, for example, there are so many funding streams within within D-lock the community community department that is still something that is worth worth pursuing, but even then we're talking about a percentage of the total, so I think it's something I mean, so it will have the detail, but somewhere between like 10 50% of money can be moved, so it's not. It's not full freedom by by by any means, I would say this is the kind of tentative steps of a government looking at what it's prepared to let go, and we are taking what we can with a view that we can make it work and then seek more going forwards. I think devolution is a long-term process and so it's like chipping away a herb at the way that things have been done. The the other point I'd make

there's there's absolutely nothing in here, that is about the Combined Authority, taking things over from the five local authorities in West Yorkshire need to be really clear about that, and there's only one aspect of that where that is or is a potential issue and that's one of the elements that we're where we keep not to have the

there is a tug of war between.

the fact that we view the objectives of devolution is is about developing a centralised functions from central government to

to localities to places so that those decisions are taken closer to the people that they affect. Government, recognises that and some of the things in here to achieve that to help towards that aim, but equally, the government has got things in here that are about kind of giving mayors or concurrent responsibilities or powers alongside local authorities, and that's what's happening with the public health part of this, for example, and but none of those areas is the Combined Authority taking anything away from local authorities. That's a really important point to make, and it's on that basis that the five authorities are prepared to sign up to this

I note what you're saying and and my ears pricked up when you

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:37:29

mentioned public health, which is a struggle, I think so my challenge

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council) - 0:37:38

going forward to you is to try and get a designated NHS dentist for every resident of our Combined Authority and I'll leave it at that ch.

to respond to any of that. Now I make a couple of points. Nothing

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:37:52

services coming as well, I mean on the public health point as good as it's been raised. We already do work on public health and, on the basis that over 80% of our health harm comes on to find them

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:38:05

undetermined by health services that are determined by the wider aspects of your life. So when we're working on employment, skills, housing, transport, et cetera, we're recognising that we have a key role to play in helping to improve people's health outcomes and the public health power that we would have would be concurrent with the local authorities, and there is no suggestion that any of the public health services which currently funded and run by local authorities will come to the see. A, it's more about recognising the CIA's role in improving public health and how the the points I was going to make were

number one, the point was made about the capacity to deliver within local authorities and the impact that slurp government finance changes and which are, and year on year, at an unprecedented level of severity. As I think we all recognise, and the importance of local authorities, having the capacity to deliver for the devolution agenda is made or the Mayor will be making it a mayor, and the fact leaders will be making that point in the letter that will go to government and the need for local authorities to have capacity to help with the kinds of things that the funding that's been made available through devolution is providing.

it has been recognised by the CIA over the last couple of years, where we've been providing funding from the gainshare to help build capacity within local authorities. The second point was about the the principles that are being established around. Partnerships which Bent has just touched on in certain might want to come in on as well, which is just addressing the point around the what, what the Combined Authority will do, what the local authorities do and how we will work together as a team of six and the third thing, just to build on point Ben's point about being cautious around. The funding simplification position is that the government has just published something called a funding simplification doctrine, which is which is establishing some principles which Benn was referring to, which apply to all local of all local authorities, not just see EIS and

and, for instance, has any where government is considering allocating additional funding to local authorities, first principle, use and or use a pre-existing funding stream, rather than inventing something new, because part of the challenge that both CEOs and local authorities have is when a new funding stream gets allocated with completely new rules around it completely new sets of measures, and so the Department for levelling up housing and communities has has now said, and any new funding streams to local authorities, there needs to be a principle that existing

streams are built upon rather than new things being invented.

Sarah

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:40:51

yeah, just just briefly, I think is, I think, the importance and it was, I think, Benenden Alan live birth picked up on the points, but it was it was around the principles of partnership working and the reason we kind of highlighted. That is because we are doing some ongoing

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:41:03

work, working with your colleagues in local authorities, to make sure that where that we're working on progressing the deal collectively together and put the partnership principles, gonna really be really important. So you'll see in there there's a

there is a specific principle of sovereignty.

and you know, agreement that no, nothing that we're gonna take forward is gonna kind of is aimed at reducing the sovereignty of local authorities, so that's really important piece of work that we're gonna be gonna be doing alongside, obviously the negotiations on on the day I'm not pointing I think it's important that we all go back to our own

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:41:34

grandchildren say we need to have the competitions back

again, so that we can get by and or not get by and, as the case may be, because of the points that Councillor Dobson has made up, it had not made up, J Reid just know, we need to get clarity from each administration as to how they are going to interpret this partnership working, we need to all have an open debate because,

we are not even guaranteed to all the authorities actually what the you know somebody to take on some of these responsibilities and they will have some local authority, would argue that maybe they should be passed direct to the local authority rather than the CEO, I'm not saying that that's my view, but I think we've got to have that debate and that's one that we need to do in terms of recommendation from this board, maybe we should be saying to the leaders

you know, have your conversations back in your own councils as quickly as possible so that we can then feedback to you and then you've got a rough idea as to where some set of your partners.

are coming from in terms of the discussions and the debates thought that said yeah final comment, I really look forward to seeing somebody from them WYCA, at our next Health and Wellbeing Board meeting, and we're really helpful.

yeah, I've got Councillor Waller and then are bringing Councillor roads.

thank you Chair, I was reminded of some of the discussions that we had in the run-up to the City region Deal.

and though that's 16 years ago there's there was at the time, a lot of this could happen, this could be devolved, but when push came to

Cllr Andrew Waller (York Council) - 0:43:19

shove, some government departments wouldn't actually let go, and transport in particular was or was a problem at that time.

I think it's important to understand the reality of.

what would be let go in a meaningful way ii, there are resources that match the expectations rather than what councils have had for year after year, as the government says, Well, we're giving you these, these powers will give you the money, but the public will expect you to deliver it, so it's it's really understanding.

sense check that's been done in terms of this would be an adult conversation to have with central government about properly handing responsibility to a devolved structure, and it it's it's has been an ongoing debate for.

many decades now, really, so it sees understanding where where we are in in that position, thank you.

Justice Bill.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:44:30

it's a another great question and I would say that the y you're right that we we keep having to go back, and I hope him made some of these

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:44:38

coming to him opening remarks that to what is the objective of devolution and and it's got to be to help devolution has got to support the achievement of better outcomes locally and we want devolution where we think devolved functions from central government will aid that and we don't want it where where it worked and just to pick up on one of Sarah's points.

that doesn't mean we're talking about a relationship just between the Combined Authority and central government, One of the partnership principles and areas about subsidiarity are to the most appropriate level sit so and increasingly we're in a territory where actually this is about passporting responsibilities through to local authorities, with the resources to to go with that, it is a challenge. I think it's fair to say that the the the the devolution agenda and achieving the kinds of things that I've just talked about has and has taken a back seat in terms of national politics for a number of years, and it's only recently that it has resurfaced through the announcement of the two trailblazers and then the announcement of the off of level 4 so s. So we are hoping. We are certainly will be

putting our views into the kind of the the correction process, the the the views about what local places want from devolution is maker to both political parties of all political parties as they as they go forward into the into the next parliament J Wright, Councillor Rogers and Councillor Environment.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:46:11

coming back to the paper, I have made several of the notes here, first of all, you've got a working group currently scheduled to meet on the 29th of January and make, apparently, yes, the 29th of January on the

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:46:26

16th of February, looking at the issue of the protocols et cetera and you've already nominated people onto the Scrutiny Board to be the representatives looking at that, can you tell us what the terms of reference are for that working group, please?

Karl.

yeah

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:46:47

it sounded more like eligible term companies in terms of reference.

I am asking the officers here using one of the terms of reference agreed.

I can't remember if the terms of if actual formal terms of reference have been drawn up for it, the the agreement at the last meeting was

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:47:05

for a working group to be pulled together to make recommendations to the Combined Authority about how the Scrutiny protocol could be implemented.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:47:16

Oliver may take.

and the Sulaiman that the situation in terms of this short term working group will also have what we call overview, it is overview and scrutiny designated in terms of scrutiny as a purpose, so who is the

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:47:35

officer, that's reporting to you from these terms of reference that you haven't got here for us from an overview point as is going ahead rather than a culmination of the agreement for a submission on the 8th of March?

Caroline

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:47:59

usually you've got that one.

well, this would mean the scrutiny function sits within my area and I

Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:48:11

work I worked closely with Callard and we meet regularly t to discuss the next stages on this, so I'm but you know, I'm very aware of the timing of this working group and the process then and colleagues and I have a liaise together to ensure that we get to a point where the recommendations of the working group can hit a Scrutiny Committee and that can then feed into the March CA meeting. So we have liaised in terms of ensuring that this work is captured and it is fully taken forward because the March CA meeting is the effectively the the last meeting of this municipal year.

at which decisions can be taken about how we implement the scrutiny protocol for the next municipal year, so it's absolutely critical that we hit that date, so we have worked together but 0 but in terms of very much that oversight role rather than me becoming involved in what the Scrutiny Committee might attach, you know what those recommendations may look like, so Khalid is very much we've sort of kept that separation Kelly is very much the lead person working with the

linking in with the working group and scrutiny committee in terms of those recommendations, but the process to ensure that that is then taken forward effectively and we're liaising on, so I don't know if I've answered your question agenda, so we have to go, we're well aware of the process of scrutiny.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:49:34

in our local authorities and end up joint level as well across the patch, so you are aware of the terms of reference and Kelly, do you

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:49:45

have a copy yeah, OK in that case beings are so short and it is a very important part of the process that you're going through because you've representatives here across the perch is it possible Kelly had or has already been discussed, but those terms of reference can be made available to all the representatives from the various

authorities here, so from an overview point of view, in terms of going forward.

each local authority then can actually have an overview of how the terms of reference are being monitored and what its duty is under scrutiny process. Would that be something you would agree to chair yeah yeah OK because I'm part of the discussion, so I am aware of the

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:50:35

conversations taking place because we in Canada and I also briefly Dr Motu launched recurring keywords. We briefly discussed how we were going to be taken forward as well. So yes, I'm aware of it and I've got no problems with that.

and the very first meeting, I think we will also tighten up, shall we say, on some of our terms of reference, to make sure that everyone who is attending knows what the limits of what can and can't we do because, for example, I asked a question about potential costs on this because if you get more people involved and you'd expecting people to be around for a longer period of time, does that put the costs of the combined authority to which I was advised that that's the huge cost of actually set by the independent panel not necessarily by

so we need clarity on what that would be, and another example would be do we need another three or four college would be if we wanted it, we're going to do more of it, then we need to look at what's the potential administration costs of it, particularly if we come down to just one Scrutiny Committee but with a number of deputy chairs I we're gonna split the work up how we're going to split the workload up if someone expected to be an expert on absolutely everything.

or you know it was a jack-of-all-trades or Master of None that type of approach, but we've got to have that discussion because if you look at the people who, in paragraph 2.3, for we've got, a variety of skill sets a variety of knowledge,

on that, and some people, Newark Councillors and others, in terms of their approach to a new Councillor, sometimes going with a different.

approach and some of the older people, like me, get told that were past it, and we should be passing the baton on to younger people, while fine saw college. Certainly, what some of you may not be aware is that Carlo did contribute a lot to this debate when it came forward. First of all, and Khalid has made his views clear to senior management, he has written a paper, I have not seen it yet, so I don't know what it says in it, but it's been passed to senior management here, giving his initial thoughts on how it can be tacked forward. Johnson you want to add code

I suppose.

Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:53:06

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:53:10

just to say yes, got confidence that it's true and our working group as a whole, as yours is. The committee's working group, is an

Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:53:14

independent member-led process. So other scrutiny officers also partner members, in their wherever they want to look at and the to summarise in terms of reference, and we can circulate the actual document, but it's literally just to go through those key principles outlined in 2.29 page 12 of the report, Alan lifelong partners are necessary because when I said something he punched forward, I do you want to clarify being slightly pedantic. Well, it was because it was

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:53:43

so the point I was going to make was the the the the remuneration of the of members isn't set by the independent remuneration panel set by

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:53:49

the Combined Authority, upon the advice of the independent remuneration panel and to a similar point, the decisions, the the the the the the ultimate decisions about how the scrutiny protocol are implemented need to be taken by the Combined Authority and by that I don't mean us I mean the Mayor, the five leaders and the three members for political balance,

so so that the working group will make recommendations, there is then, if there is then a meeting of this committee again on it says here the 8th of March, although because of most question time, I think that conversation will happen on the first actually on the extra meeting.

and then decisions will then go forward to a meeting of the Combined Authority.

and the key, the key thing we need to make at this point is a commitment to government that will implement the Scrutiny Scrutiny protocol within 12 months of government, having made a decision about level 4.

preference, as I do everywhere I go in terms of scrutiny, is it

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:54:50

obviously we've got member authorities who want that officers who are going to be looking at the terms of references and the issues in the devil for deal?

and of course, as forgive me saying,

elected members are not individuals coming here, they are representatives of their local authority, and the expectation is as well, of reporting back in terms of processes that are ongoing in their role within any function. So it's good that if that happens we've got the two members, so we have terms of reference that they can apply there, perhaps their briefing back to us all on to make sure that we're all aware of what's happening, and indeed now we know we've got the officer, I'm sorry

Carolyn, we will thank you, there's the glare of the light and now that we know that Caroline, obviously it's in your portfolio off from reporting back from Kelly's, that you will be not monitoring it as well.

that's that's one point, and thank you for that, I think it's going to be a very useful chair, I'm coming back to.

in terms of the Councillor Dawson, Jane Alan you mentioned the working in partnership etc and

you mentioned the involvement that you have with health through various partnerships.

I don't know what anybody else round here, but Chair I'm sure you will as well I sit on the Joint Overview and Scrutiny Committee for the whole of the five authorities and

I personally haven't seen, and I would have been welcomed, I have to say I would welcome down where are the Combined Authority and I'm sure where we're all involved with Health would have seen the advantage of the combined authority working with local scrutiny committees on its priorities and there has been no information to my knowledge on any of that which could have been advantageous to his old chair to see where partnerships through funding could have worked together and we could have looked at the issues that maybe could have added value to what you're doing but that hasn't happened at 1.00.

and I'm going to go on again if, on nature.

I note that the submission details here, and that's that's that's a given, but I have a surprising paragraph in here as well.

and it's on to the equality and diversity, and it says there are no direct equality and diversity or diversity implications are regularly arising from this report.

however, the Combined Authority gains the powers and functions 11 4 it will give us freedom to deliver our on our equality and diversity priorities.

now, from another point of view and in other committees there is, I'm sure, as you know as well, Chair and other members.

we do have equality and diversity issues in our patches out there, and so I'm surprised that none of that has come into any consideration that you can have a broad sweeping statement to say there is no, there are no equality and diversity implications arising from what you are intending to do being, as we all know from our own authorities that we've already got some.

and I think that's a very broad sweeping statement in terms of the assumption that there's none, rather than the statement that would have said we will work.

with areas that's been helpful, but I think that's something that

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:58:29

should not be worded like that and, lastly, chair.

I do think as well that I'm aware of the leaders and the Chief Executive and the meeting, as has been said.

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:58:43

the intention to submit this letter to government by the deadline date at the end of this month.

could I ask one questioner, and it's just been in my mind and thinking about all of this. What would happen if, for instance, one or two local authorities, because this is only submission, it's not a recognition of acceptance. It's an intent. What would happen, sure if one or two local authorities, or maybe more I don't know at this stage, decided having submitted this letter at this stage and then would not declaration of it. It is already a declaration of intent, decided come the date and deadlines that are being looked at here, such as a year down the road, and accept that there didn't want to be involved with it. What would happen then could two or three go alone where I said we need to go back and get to each local authority to have the debate in generally

I mean, that was one of the questions anyway, Mr still, do you want to

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:59:49

clarify roles with a with apologies, Councillor Alison, I I need to go for half an hour to chair a meeting, I'll congratulate that. I'll leave Alan to pick up the points which I think are a well-made and I

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:59:57

think there has been a misinterpretation of what is intended there and

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:00:01

then Sara Khan can pick up the point I don't even register still did step in at the last minute because the Mayor was here, I asked, if instead, we could have Mr still to answer any questions because originally it would return the mayor, we would have been firing those questions at her in respect of that, so thank you for coming along or I'll come straight back as soon as I'm not sorry, thank you

so does anybody want to clarify anything to follow that Councillor Rogers said, Alan yeah, thank you very much, thanks to Councillor Rhodes, I think I'll owe all the points around around health, maybe we maybe we can have a further conversation about what more we can see

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:00:42

that because,

the the commander of this is a space that the Combined Authority has been.

with the agreement of the five local authorities we've been moving into a bit more over the last year or two, so we have appointed an associate director of public Health who is not a statutory Director of public health, that's really important, so she does not exercise statutory de PH powers but she works with the five directors of public health around the wider determinants of health helping to improve outcomes and we have signed a partnership agreement with the integrated care board that sets out how we will work together so really happy to expand on that with with councillors.

separately, and to come to whatever s or or and to have colleagues come to whichever sessions it might be necessary.

on equity, diversity and inclusion, the the the the the the the line here there, I I'd I'd like to I'd like us to focus on the second part, which is, it will give us more freedom to deliver on our equity and diversity priorities.

point being that equity, diversity and inclusion is now riven through all of the combined authorities objectives, and that isn't just about trying to ensure that there's no detriment to particular groups when we implement policies and programmes but about actively tackling inequality and targeting our programmes towards tackling inequality, one of the challenges with the way that the funding mechanisms currently work as we've touched on is that often the criteria for how we need to apply the funding.

doesn't support that agenda, so an example being the brownfield housing fund which leads to it being easier to invest in wealthier areas than in less well-off areas, and so if we are working in an environment where we've got much greater freedom to allocate funding both between pots and in line with our regional priorities, we think we will be able to target our funding more effectively to improve equity and inclusion.

thank you Chair, I think, actually Councillor Roche.

OK.

Sarah wanted to come to the area.

apologies. It was just the the last point that Councillor Rhodes made

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:03:06

around what would happen if you know, as we move as we move forward, particularly local authorities that don't want to sign up to pick out Silverdale and one and that they would not move, you know it does require the canopy involvement in consent of all the the all five local authorities and the Combined Authority to move forward. So we wouldn't be progressing those areas. I think in in other parts of the country where they've been looking at this kind of pick and mix approach, if some things have not progressed because local authorities haven't been able to to sign up at that particular point. So if we don't get everybody collectively together, then we wouldn't progress that that area. My chairs brief the other day that was one of the

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:03:42

points I made is. How can we be sure that everybody wants to go down the same way, the example I would give it? I was aware of discussions over planning powers when we got to we understand, though, some people were happy to go there in one direction and we ended up with a compromise, shall we say and

they just sit bench on your own view on public health, because I was one of the queries I raised and the other one I raised the other day which on taxi licence and throughout we could. We've tried as a group of West Yorkshire authorities to get a degree of conformity, but it's not always been possible, shall we say, or whatever reasons, and it would. That's why Caroline is actually come today because we got into legal niceties and I said Well if we get involved in legal niceties, I'll leave it for you to explain the legal basis. It is not me that actually the legal niceties on it, so that said, so I've got Councillor Barnes and Councillor Dawson originally actually derived in terms of the the difficulties in bringing 5 Kwai and I were quite quite close but yeah quite different borrowers together into into that. I think Councillor Rogers picked on it, which is the health services aspect of it.

I would like you to come back on that one, because I have some concerns with the way in which the integrated care board system is

Cllr Mike Barnes - 1:05:02

where places mental primacy, which is purely a concept, because there are completely ignoring the wishes of the Council on going under their own weight, so through the careful I think last autumn concerns there and adding another layer onto public health. It is a concern and I accept your 80% point on the other side, something that that's that's beautiful, I'm just getting a feeling of trying to nail jelly to the wall within two weeks here and that that's under a gap that obviously I'm seeing some big gap between what you're thinking and what government seems to be thinking and you've got a very short timeframe to put it in a very short timeframe, for us to consider it and approve it and through the individual councils to consider and approve it

Good luck.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:05:43

how do we get economy? Thank you I mean OK, I am I'm if you don't mind, I'm not going to I'm I'm not a comment on the specific around the integrated care board and the relationship with the Council, but yeah, so I I I I probably don't have any anything more so, no, sorry,

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:05:57

I mean again, if the Mayor had been here, she would have been able to have given her view because at the end of the day, it's hard leadership and she will lead us through this this path, shall we say, the Mayor will be at the forefront of guiding us through this path. Some we agree with or somebody not, but that's democracy, I think it's

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:06:21

just very quickly entered to get you off the hook, I've ha expertly put somebody else on the hook, and that is, it will be really I mean through you, chairman and subject, so obviously all my colleagues are agreeing. It would prevent a nice to see the director of the WYCA director of public health here at some point, and if we could persuade

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council) - 1:06:39

the Chair of the integrated care board or boards to come at the same time, so we can actually just get a bit more information on how they plan on working together on this agenda because we haven't even got we're still on finance, we haven't got to know housing and all the other things, yet we've all got questions on that, so you know, through your Chairman and with permission, it would be quite nice to do that at some future meeting. I think whether we are looking towards Marie setting up some sort of workshop where we can have your prestige discussions on some of those things. I do think that's where we, because I raised a number of points as well and euro added to those issues, but I do think we have to have a discussion so we could

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:07:18

understand it, but that's why it is important that back our own counsels, our council leaderships need to have the conversations with all of us because we are. Actually and believe it or not, we are no more informed that a lot of our other colleagues back in our Councillor, because the discussion we've had today Alan you wanted to come

yeah, we're I was, I was going to respond to that they have a.

the other point that was made around timing, so the first the first

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:07:49

name says really happy to circulate further information about our work on our work in the public health space and and so on, and and have an item at a future meeting, of course we can we can do that.

the the point I was gonna make about what I was going to come back to Councillor Barnes, about what needs deciding now.

this is not. This is not the point in the process. When absolutely everything gets agreed, this is about staying as part of a process, so essentially we're going back to government or other the mayor and the five leaders going back to government saying yes, we're interested, we

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:08:30

want to get into further negotiation over a future further deal. This isn't a point where there isn't a point of no return or the point where everything gets finalised. This is yes, we want to carry on talking. There will then be a process which will take a matter of months

before we get to a point where things are formalised,

due to our interest whose portfolio with n WYCA would public health sit beneath and also in scrutiny terms, because when it comes to issues around transport and employment skills, I would be suggesting that we can take a strategic approach, but we should be asking boost those particular scrutiny boards to look into the finer detail as to how it would work so well with public health sit whose responsibility is the public health side within WYCA so at the moment the associate Director of public health is so-called Jennifer Connolly reports to Sarah

but I think it's a very fair question about across the three committees, corporate economy and transport.

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:09:34

where where might there be a conversation about health, because the answer to your question, of course, is that all of those things impact on public yeah, so there's an economy angle, there's a transport and infrastructure and housing angle as well, so and then a cross cutting angle, which is why it sits on the Sara is because it's so cross cutting as per one and therefore is part of our cross-cutting strategy function because, just like Finance Finance sits under everybody's as

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:09:58

well later as I can spend every day Scrutiny meetings that are put if you

Sue Smith

let us be careful where it is.

yeah yeah, that's the north-west Councillor Kendall.

yeah, just to be assured that the associate director doesn't have powers blank a directory of notes it can liaise and they can come back with reports, but they have to be in line with the priorities advisory

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 1:10:29

approval, rather than anything else, is in terms correct, and she

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:10:34

attends West Yorkshire TVH assuming on a regular basis, and the point I haven't made, which I should have done, is that she is employed by the Combined Authority on secondment from the ECB and is a jointly funded post. So she's not just working for the the CA, is it where she's jointly funded a prospect of CIA and the ECB

right there, Councillor Dowson, did you want to go on it as an?

now you don't get it right, so if we can now move on to the transport side of things now, I've already hinted at 1.00 of the areas that this the transport one is a case of all or nothing you know what at the moment, at the moment it is a case of all or nothing, and some people might be satisfied with 99% of it, but there's a lot of niggling doubt in some other part, so anybody any specific questions at a strategic level or strategic level, because what will probably have to do is ask the transport Scrutiny Board to look into the minutiae of it, but at a strategic level, anybody, any questions

right, so I will start with Councillor Griffiths and Councillor Dawson, just very quickly you hinted or Ben indicated that there was one bit of the transport which you weren't interested, you were trying to get anywhere, he negotiated with the Bill which is the bit you don't want.

we have questions about how the taxi licensing.

Cllr Aneela Ahmed - 1:11:56

sorry, his questions about the we have questions about how the the the

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:12:04

taxi licensing element would work where recent local authorities very reasonably we've got questions about what the benefits of of.

of changing the way that it operates would be particularly given that the West Yorkshire authorities and York already collaborated on applying similar standards for taxi licensing.

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:12:21

Councillor Dowson,

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:12:26

no, none of which helps when people are allowed not to have a taxi licence in the area they operate, but if we can crack that nut, maybe that'll make some difference just just one, and it doesn't seem to appear in here, so maybe it is something that doesn't appear in your

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council) - 1:12:44

remit and that is electric car charging.

because there's an awful lot on on ticketing and key routes and buses, and so on, and but nothing on how we're going to get more car electric car charging, especially as a lot of us have back to back houses, there's gonna have to be new rules around either drilling underneath them waving something over the footpath but you know how are we going to ensure that all our residents actually are able to use it without having to queue up for hours or wait?

to charge their cars, which the Department that looked after climate

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:13:22

change got any view on that.

do you know it's not something that's all on offer through through the framework?

at the moment at this moment in time, that's not something that we've been given additional. Can you pr when, if someone wish to ask you,

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:13:37

what are the local authorities with to ask you for funding in order to support them in doing a piece of work? Is that option open to them to come to, as it is already through some of the programmes that we've got in place, and I think quite recently that we have taken some approvals, I think stroke combined authority about about projects that are precisely doing doing some of that, that fact that it's a

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:14:00

protected ocean, is it fits in perfectly with all the work he doing on active travel and we have had, and not had and had consultations on to

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council) - 1:14:10

active travel schemes in my particular Ward, and I could lay out all the positives and negatives of the

level of consultation that went into to those in the results and one of the key comments that came up again and again was what about so people were against cycles, they weren't against walking the words against the zones it was is how you actually integrate everything into that around public transport around. You know electric charging around 0emissions around 0 0

all sorts came into the actual comments that came from residents around this, but electric charging is something as we get closer and closer to the default deadline which I know the Government's move their deadline on. We haven't as a local authority, we're still sticking to 20 Thursday, but these issues, which might seem quite small to people who've got drives and so on, and really actually if you live in a flat or if you live in a in a back-to-back house in our inner cities and you work, maybe as a private hire or taxi driver, if we bring it that one and it's your livelihood, how are you going to ensure you charge your power is actually really important.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:15:24

we are investing in electric vehicle charging, it's just not a as Harrop said, it's just not something that's available through the this additional framework, but there are there is work happening in the Combined Authority, I think where we are at the moment we're in the middle of a procurement exercise to start the next stage of the programme. I'm very happy to arrange for some further information about that to be circulated to the Committee afterwards, Mr Holmes,

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:15:46

graham's all on the question of transport.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:15:51

J, do you think that provision will be better?

for provisional funding for essential relief roads within communities.

I mean, for example, in Wakefield we have some issues, we have some essential relief roads necessary.

shall be constructed, and we've just gone through a process of submitted a development plan, and it was deemed that these essential infrastructure was not achievable in the lifetime of the plan, but by having a combined power over transport, do you think the access of funding for social roles will be easier to come by or more difficult?

I say them.

the date for those kinds of big projects. We're still delivering the West Yorkshire and York Transport Fund, which was agreed in 2014, which had a number of major infrastructure projects in it, and we are 10 years now into that, and it's it's a up to a 20 year programme, so there are still some projects within that which are in the in the midst of delivery. The next two things that are relevant to this, I

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:17:15

think, are, firstly, the city region, sustainable transport settlement, which we're in phase, one of which is 800 million pounds with for a range of infrastructure projects, a lot around active travel

and

some bus station work and

that inquiry also includes funding for mass transit,

the next stage will be what's called sorry, his Government's terminology, not mine, the city region, sustainable transport settlement too, and there will need to be a process with local authorities to establish what the priorities for each area should be, that the that funding is then used for so I would expect in the future for there to be a further process whereby,

we are where we ask local authorities what those kinds of priorities are for each of their areas. Can I just come back yeah wow we actually

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:18:11

received funding to produce a strategic outline plan for a particular relief road and we receive that funding from the Combined Authority and we also received a certain amount of funding to all producing a business plan, but then when I made enquiries about that, it said that

Cllr Tony Hames - 1:18:36

there were no no plans to include that particular road within the scheme and I'm just wondering I'm just wondering why it's dried up, like you know and whether the situation can be altered.

I mean is that something that

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:18:49

the Transport Scrutiny should maybe be asked to look into unless anybody knows the answer without getting involved in it, we don't have an elite.

know where that particular fate will have to get an answer.

yeah, many, many tell me.

yeah, I mean if someone keeps fine speech, Councillor Haynes after David yeah, right anybody anything else, yes, Mr Councillor Griffiths social care, so it just caught my eye in the in the report you refer to offers relates to pavement parking and something that's a

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 1:19:26

particularly bugbear would be, I can never understand why, when it is illegal to drive up pavements, the fact that you are on the pavement can't be taken as evidence of the fact you drove on it in the past and that's another story

the

when you look at the detail, though, it talks about the eligible institution working with pay to identify pavement problem vehicles and develop concise roll-out, using available powers appropriate as far as I'm gonna, savvy belap Aris, all powers are nil, which is rather unhelpful and then mentioned that the government is currently considering its response to the national pavement parking consultation which is probably a fit because if the consultation phase I think is about three years ago so if they are considering and they're not considering it very hard or very expeditiously, the I guess the question I'm asking is, is there any hint, or is there something that could be passed teased out in negotiation as to whether actually there might be some form of response, even if the responses will devolve the decision on whether you can control pavement parking to combined authorities, rather than making it a national rule with the local authorities can can do it in some way and if de do haven't hit, so, that is the or you are the only information you've got. What's

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:20:40

actually in the documents from government that before you enter that one chair Appendix 2 that you gave to the Finance Committee yesterday goes through a little bit more detail, a number of the things that we've got before us today. Could you meet that appendage to available to members, because that does add a little bit of more detail yeah, because I am not convinced, so I think I think the pavement parking

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:21:07

issue is something that was an aspiration in one of the levelling-up

White paper

you know kind of aspiration, so I think there's there's obviously something there around taking this forward and in some appetite to to do that, I think we've only got at the minute the the current level of detail and that's something that in discussions with with government colleagues, we're trying to tease out further. So I think that's one wants to watch really in terms of that detail coming forward, because because I think at the minute it's just you know, how are they going to respond and you know obviously intent in here to try and do something about that more locally. I think so we will keep you posted on that as we as we have no further detailed conversation, I think at this minute, but it's definitely something that they're looking, I think, to try and move forward now with, so I think there's a bit of movement on that

Chris Ahmad yeah, obviously we're happy it's just to follow on from

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:21:57

that. I mean, I don't know, colleagues around here, but my inbox is constantly full of e-mails from disability groups, where they are

Cllr Aneela Ahmed - 1:22:07

really struggling with getting their mobility vehicles across pavements, mums and dads were pushchairs. This is something that we've been talking about since I came into Council in 2016 and I was part of the health scrutiny group that initially had a bards band on pavements. I don't understand why it's still taking such a long time to get this resolved. This is something that is not going to go away. If if, if pavement parking in London isn't allowed ones are held anywhere else, so why is something not being done about it? Why is that? Why is fun do not be put towards getting this remedied because it affects a lot of people's lives? We don't just because we can squeeze through a small spot sideways. It doesn't mean that everybody else can do it, and it is affecting people's daily lives.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:22:55

I think it is important again that we note that the comments from got here and where we fit them back in to us senior management.

to the areas that you need to come back in the future, when you come to give us an update to answer those things, could so obviously he might have been able to second yesterday rookeries, but these are the the concerns that we have on the ground.

we are the ones who are home to try and explain to our residents why they can't get this, and this April we can do it here.

are, in some cases, shall we say, enforcement is variable.

then we will take actions in some cases, yeah, let us come back here, thank you, and just go back to the EV electric vehicle charging situation.

for a few years ago it was discussed

come in, whereas I saw it discussed regards to where electric vehicle charging points are available to back-to-back homes, for instance, that we're gonna start using a street furniture, lamp posts, etc should become charging points. They are changing quite a lot of street lighting in quite a few areas within Yorkshire and those new lamp posts. We're gonna cater for doubling up as charging points as well, so is that something that we're still looking at, and I know it happens around Europe and we have been looking at that, or is that something that's just been shelved because it's too expensive or somewhere else is going on schedule happening in Leeds

yeah yeah, sorry, yeah well, just just to help the committee with this off from what I was looking for, which is just to add some further information about our work on local electric vehicle infrastructure levy. So we have been working on a on a an electric vehicle infrastructure strategy and that is important, having a strategy for it, because that then helps to inform future business cases to government, we need to show that we've got a plan so that we can then go to government and say, Can we have some funding to help deliver it and we've had an allocation of

what we think will be just under 16 million pounds of capital funding is still subject to the there's the government have set up this new office for 0 emission vehicles, so they still need to give final approval for it. But we're expecting to get capital grant funding of 16 million and just over a million of revenue and s and some of that revenue funding will go to support roles both within the Combined Authority and within each of the five local authorities to help deliver an increased number of electric charging electric vehicle charging points, Councillor Dowson

sorry speech in Cape at s for years, I've been advocating charging for

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council) - 1:25:42

people who live in back to back houses, we have a very specific area in Leeds where there's a disproportionate and ribbon number of private hire and taxi drivers that is back to back housing, so I'd like to put forward that area as a trial area.

with this 16 million pounds so that the residents who live there can tell you first-hand what their issues are and what their problems are, both from a pedestrian point of view, but also from a from a driver point of view.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:26:17

click rack enter yesterday out on transport, if not, we will move on to employment and skills again, this is.

I wanna take Joel basically and and this one is January, any views on yeah, council roads and employment and skills.

forgive me again, I will the paragraphs in the report, given the

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 1:26:40

information and definitions all along this, and in each of them I think I've just found one.

where it mentions, and we go to the the heading of skills and employment, and it's been page 18.

and under be it says an eligible institution, and that mention is made in quite a number of these headings,

I'd love to know, chair what the eligible institutions will be in terms of the determination as we go forward, as I've looked through it as I've outlined, how many times it's said, but it's like all these acronyms that we have. There's no explanations in any other. Is it possible for us to know Chair to you and I think I think it's a

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:27:26

general term really for I think now, because there are different types of combined authority rather than trying to reference individual mayoral combined authorities, county combined authorities, it's just a general term really to to cover combined authorities without actually kind of spelling them out so reply, but he tá, it's it is the Allah

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:27:48

sorry Combined Authority that's got to that level of kind of readiness to take on level 4 power, so I think it's just a general tone we're here to cover cover all of those various different acronyms really, yes, and being as it is a general term Chairman.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:28:04

if I go to page 35 in terms of eligibility and access.

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 1:28:10

it says they are above, the devolution framework will be available to combined authorities or combined county authorities and local authorities with him and implementation level 3 deal, including a directly elected Mayor or Leader in post, unless specified indicated otherwise.

there are some broad statements that.

we unless indicated otherwise, what does that mean, it's like eligible institutions?

there are lots of institutions out there that may have a different agree, but all eligibility and accountability, so within that process of all of these headings, where I've underlying law.

who would be the responsible body within the proposed new devolution, there would actually be responsible for defining whether an institution is eligible or the broader context of what that means, yeah, it means CA it me, it means also it means the Combined

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:29:08

Authority, so it's the cow eats operates, it says that would be the eligible institution are legally possible and certainly I should

al-Sharif has said who whose portfolio would be are responsible for checking on quote-unquote eligibility criteria, institutions.

sorry, sorry, isn't it owed to the government, the government is responsible for defining whether they think an institution is

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:29:33

eligible, so we are an eligible institution because we already have what is now the government is describing as level 3, so we are ineligible institution we have consulted informally with government to check that we do indeed make their criteria meet their criteria and we do

but it is in my portfolio to ensure that the organisation continues to meet the high standards expected of government that then makes us eligible for for further devolution, and it includes things like our governance arrangements, our assurance framework are at the way that we make decisions, et cetera.

just to pick up on a detailed point that you mentioned where you said what is, unless otherwise specified, mean.

so an example of that is government has been clear that if a institution which would otherwise be eligible is in some form of intervention, because, for instance, of alleged financial mismanagement, then they would not be eligible, that's the kind of thing that I think is covered by the unless otherwise specified Chair that's very interesting Alan thank you very much. What about

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:30:37

authorities then that are in a 1 1 4 situation at the moment? Section 1 1 4

we don't have any, so it's not a matter that has arisen yet.

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:30:50

so we are not, so the it's, it's, it's not a that's different from Gü from a government intervening, so it's it's. It's not a matter that has arisen at this point again, I think it's a point to note and to

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:31:05

get clarification on, yes to do as to what what would that would that mean, because without get too political about it in the short term, I think there's going to be a number of authorities that will slip into that, shall we say, but for whatever reasons, let's please not go into them but there yeah, there is an acknowledgment that there could be some authorities and surprising authorities, because if you look throughout the country, it really has been surprising. Some of the authorities have actually ended up like that. You think will actually live in quite wealthy areas

they've got the problems, not necessarily deprived areas. Councillor Griffiths just just want to clarify the scarf, do you think it is important? Yes, the combined authorities is an eligible institution, should any one of the constituent authorities of the Combined Authority be in, for example, section 1 1 4 I have other other issue which would therefore cover the category of, unless otherwise specified, does that does that stymie? The whole devolution deal for the full five authority come back and a new combined authority, or is it or is the ace judgement to the eligibility, the combined

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 1:32:15

authorities as an institution on its own rights entirely, rather than for because of the in any context of the constituent authorities

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:32:27

within it? So definitely if the eligibility of the Combined Authority rather than the other local authorities and

we are, of course, as you might expect and are working through, what

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:32:40

the implications would be if one or more local authorities in West Yorkshire were in a position where they issued a section 1 1 4 I would just draw a parallel with the West Midlands if I may to answer the Committee's question about what Government's position on this might be. So Birmingham City Council have issued a section 1 1 4 there has been no indication of government that that is affecting the West Midlands Combined authorities position in terms of being a trailblazer devolution area.

okay, yeah, Councillor Holmes.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:33:08

employment and skills often depends on the provision of worthwhile jobs.

Cllr Tony Hames - 1:33:17

whenever whatever or a government department is relocate in or are a finance company or insurance broker or are looking to relocate with, we seem to have to go into competition with members of the Combined Authority on resumed, are we more than more than less we lose out to Leeds?

in the in this location, it is in this sort of area.

Will as a combined as a combat as a

devolved area will the distribution of worthwhile jobs as coming from Lee relocation of firms be taken as a whole or will we still be in competition?

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:34:04

sorry, the look, the Combined Authority works with the local authorities on an when it knows about companies that are interested in locating in the region.

and works with those companies closely in terms of what's the kind of space that they're looking for, what types of jobs are they and what

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:34:30

the options are available across the whole region, and the team does explicitly work with the aim of ensuring that,

the the companies that are interested are made aware of a range of places across across the region and actively works to ensure that that the that new jobs that we are.

able to influence the location of, and, of course, its its limited, because ultimately it is a decision for the relevant company, but we, we do actively work to ensure that those are to try and ensure that they are spread across the region so that so I and N, and the other point of course is that.

the location of a off of new jobs within one area of West Yorkshire is not just of benefit to the the the very localised area that it's that it's a, it also provides greater benefit to the wider region.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:35:29

the the point I'm sorry Gary, not to be far better before I bet you if we could say, for example, Wakefield will refinance Centre Bradford,

Cllr Tony Hames - 1:35:37

ruin insurance centre somewhere else will and I do send done, then that would attract other companies into them into them areas and then would go to a flow of worthwhile jobs for.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:35:48

kids that are coming through in his own area.

so I think relevant to that is the new economic strategy which is being developed for the region at the moment, which does indeed builder or has, as part of it, the building of an evidence base around the economic and industrial strengths of each area of the of West Yorkshire,

to agree any other questions on employment and skills, if not, can we move on to housing and land, enabling any issues, both the potential areas are, yes, kettle plugs.

thank you own just a couple of points, obviously.

when in the in in the document it does apart to the

areas being itemise where housing is required and, in particular, the link with homes, England at the moment, the homes England funding usually is channelled through housing associations, is that still

Cllr David Nunns - 1:36:56

going to be the same aspect of work to actually provide the the the housing facilities that we require?

and then again the compulsory purchase, and we're looking at there that the we're trying to look at actually acquiring some sort of a Langbar landbank situation where.

the the local combined authorities in connection with the local authority that the year was 6 local authorities will be able to itemise areas purchased that land through compulsory purchase orders and develop it through Holmes England to try and come against yeah, trying to still put back the amount of housing that we need.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:37:42

so A and A and apologise for setting up.

the

I would say the the the thrust of your question, the the answer is,

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:37:52

this is more about working in partnership with homes, England than it is about homes, England programmes being devolved to local control, and so so the the strategic place partnership and that we have with housing then there is the first of this nature and death.

and sustainability in the country is a good example of how the government would like other places to work, so this is an example where actually, what's in the deal here is probably reflects what is already happening in West Yorkshire, so so there's the strategic place partnership.

is a is or is a bogus that's chaired by the Mayor, with with the leadership of homes, England around the table as well, and it is looking at what are the key development sites, be there in public or private ownership, and then what is the bespoke actions necessary to unlock those sites? So I think the things that you've talked about in terms of specific actions is part of the toolbox, but I think it's kind of the ambition here is how we are not the sites and what are what is needed on an individual basis, rather than a collective programme of acquisition or anything like that to help keep aren't

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:39:01

there any other issues in respect of housing, if not Net Zero climate change and natural capital anybody any issues on that

doesn't look like it and shall if anyone in public health now we've had a cow ha discussion already on public health.

are we probably seeing right fine, we note this and we would like Scrutiny to be defined which Scrutiny Board, I think, but we get clarity on which Scrutiny Board and ask them to maybe get.

the officers that you mentioned already to come together and we could have a better discussion and understanding as to what role we Combined Authority have in public health and where, shall we say there might be areas of overlap with what is happening in local authorities so I was happy to park that one there and leave it up to someone to say which Scrutiny Board should do that and they will set up a working group to actually have a proper discussion on it, so we are happy with that yeah.

is accurate just just on that brilliant idea, absolutely we need to find out which relevant sits under and plus, because it's such an emotive subject of this so much to discuss on it, maybe a stand-alone

Cllr Aneela Ahmed - 1:40:16

meeting for put forth for that yeah hopefully it's on at some point because you know within the constraints of other subjects this needs to be discussed on its own and I thank you for all show to enable

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:40:29

other members of the Committee authority to attend the workshop.

as well, because that's one of the things that it's fine, if you've got an interest in that subject, but you may have an interest in another subject. Chris, let's face it who has an interest in transport around here, and we would all like to spend their time discussing transport here, but we've got people who do that, Councillor Dobson, I think you've actually just suggested what I was going to say in so

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council) - 1:40:53

much as it needs to be cross scrutiny because every concern housing and transport and all the other things you indicated, which he should and it's something we all know then yes, yeah OK yeah also

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:41:05

how they intend to work with the directors of public health, so maybe

Cllr Richard Forster - 1:41:10

having a a director of public health there might be might be a good idea, because obviously they're the ones with the power which is still.

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:41:18

thank you Chair.

I missed the conversation so so.

on why this has always been said already, but I am absolutely right to

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:41:28

want to have a point of cross cutting discussion around public health. It is so important to some of the objectives, but it would iterate the point that Alan made before I left, which was that the the, from our perspective, this is absolutely not about the Combined Authority taking anything over from any of the local authorities or any other part of the integrated health and care system. This is much more about. How do we ensure that the that health is in our policies effectively, that we're looking at every opportunity to improve health outcomes in partnership with the rest of the system? It's absolutely not about anything grandeur Granlund. That person does

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:42:09

think I think we've got that and then explain that very clearly, I think we're more about how we work in partnership and how it's integrated for the results that we all want to see. Yeah, OK so and then we've got the separate scrutiny, one that we're setting up the working group, so that referred back to you all and some of you are participating in it. Early review and participating will be able to see either the notes

when its family comes forward to Scrutiny formally, because my reading is actually reform scrutiny is going to be vital to convincing the government that we're on the right tracks. You know that

more and more services are being delegated, I do think the general trend is for more and more funding to be delegated to the main authorities, not necessarily local authorities, rightly or wrongly HRA, so I think they just want reassurance that there is going to be democratic accountability, hence the reason asking the mayors to do more public queue initiations so that people can ask

questions

and also to try and enable Councillors

to actively hold the Mayor to account. One of the things I've said since I took over chair here is, and it's cover again today is without having someone a political person sitting at the top there. We occasionally ask questions that need a political answer rather than an officer based answer, and it can mean you're talented enough to be able to handle it. I accept that, but in some cases it actually needs the debate, and that was why, when we set it up, we're gonna have the mayor here. So if there was any political angle

the Mayor could have expressed the political angle behind it, so can I thank you all for your contribution this morning now what's going to happen, which my understanding is that our comments will be fed into the process, officers will reflect back on how we can all work better together in when the the problem starts the AKA actually a question for Angela how do you put anything in the budget next year to enable officers to spend time developing this is there an actual

line in the budget that money has been set aside, because officers are

Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:44:33

doing their job today, which is good, but if they are going to have to

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:44:39

take time out of those jobs, is there any budget in the in the proposed budget so that we can discuss this more fully as a combined authority?

there will be a question there, there is no budget line per se, however, and as we go on to the the each team has been required to put together the business plans for next year, they actually what the

Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:44:59

resource allocation is and there it is their task to match.

so some of this will be a case of of using resources differently, rather than adding in because there just isn't capacity to shrank, adding in, because it is going to be quite an intense piece of work

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:45:15

when we get down to the manager as to how it is going to affect the different sections and some people will thrive other senior managers making. Today, however, I can't do any more of doing it. I'm already working at 100%. Thank you very much. So we need to have the debate as to how it's going to affect, so hopefully that's given

Everyone an idea today, and if you can get this appendix to, I said, was given to finance yesterday that does put a little bit more meat on the bones as well, which is a great help, so can I thank the officers who have come specifically for this particular item and thank Mr still and Caroline Allen as well for coming specifically to try and answer our questions, Caroline is no doubt going away, thinking or Highways are given this responsibility.

anyway, thanks very much for what will have a five minute hold, so you can go on.

replenish your glasses or go and visit.

7 Work Programme

the work programme, anybody, any questions and the work programme, then the unit officer, thank you very much,

8 Date of the next meeting - 1 March 2024

will formally close that parts of the meeting and will reconvene, or is it 3 5 2?

could we get back again?

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council)

Leeds City Council

Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)

Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)

Director, Finance & Commercial Services

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)

Managing Director

WYCA

Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)

Cllr Andrew Waller (York Council)

York Council

Cllr Aneela Ahmed

Cllr Mike Barnes

Cllr Richard Forster

Cllr Alun Griffiths

Cllr Tony Hames

Cllr David Nunns

Cllr Betty Rhodes

Corporate Scrutiny Committee - Friday 19 January 2024, 10:00am - Feedback Tab - West Yorkshire Combined Authority Webcasting

Corporate Scrutiny CommitteeFriday, 19th January 2024 at 10:00am

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

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Speakers

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Votes

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:00:00

1 Apologies for absence

Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:00:29

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:01:17

5 Chair's comments and update

6 Level 4 Devolution

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:03:55

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:13:31

Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:13:48

Cllr Aneela Ahmed - 0:13:53

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:13:58

Cllr Andrew Waller (York Council) - 0:14:07

Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:10

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:19

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:22

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:24

Angela Taylor, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:14:27

Cllr David Nunns - 0:14:32

Cllr Tony Hames - 0:14:41

Cllr Mike Barnes - 0:14:50

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:15:13

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:15:56

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:19:38

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:19:42

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:20:49

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:22:36

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:23:51

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:25:25

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:25:42

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:26:50

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:28:24

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:30:09

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:31:49

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:31:56

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:32:20

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:32:31

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council) - 0:32:40

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:34:53

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:34:58

Cllr Alun Griffiths - 0:37:29

Cllr Jane Dowson (Leeds City Council) - 0:37:38

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:37:52

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:38:05

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:40:51

Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:41:03

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:41:34

Cllr Andrew Waller (York Council) - 0:43:19

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:44:30

Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:44:38

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:46:11

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:46:26

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:46:47

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:47:05

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:47:16

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:47:35

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:47:59

Caroline Allen, Deputy Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:48:11

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:49:34

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:49:45

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:50:35

Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:53:06

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:53:10

Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:53:14

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:53:43

Alan Reiss, Chief Operating Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:53:49

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:54:50

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:58:29

Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:58:43

Corporate Scrutiny Committee
Friday, 19th January 2024 at 10:00am