Scrutiny Committee - Friday 19 September 2025, 10:30am - West Yorkshire Combined Authority Webcasting

Scrutiny Committee
Friday, 19th September 2025 at 10:30am 

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  1. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
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  1. Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  3. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  4. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  5. Cllr Richard Forster
  6. Cllr Dave Merrett
  7. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  8. Andy Rontree
  9. Kate Haigh
  10. Paul Godwin
  11. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
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  1. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  3. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  4. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  5. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  6. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  7. Cllr Hannah Bithell
  8. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  9. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  10. Kate Haigh
  11. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  12. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  13. Kate Haigh
  14. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  15. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  16. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  17. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  18. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  19. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  20. Satinder Sahota, Interim Assistant Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  21. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  22. Matt Edwards
  23. Paul Godwin
  24. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  25. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  26. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  27. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  28. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  29. Matt Edwards
  30. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  31. Andy Rontree
  32. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  33. Andy Rontree
  34. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  35. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  36. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  37. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  38. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  39. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  40. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  41. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  42. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  43. Cllr Harry McCarthy
  44. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  45. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  46. Cllr Harry McCarthy
  47. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  48. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  49. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  50. Cllr Ralph Berry
  51. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  52. Cllr Ralph Berry
  53. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  54. Matt Edwards
  55. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  56. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  57. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  58. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  59. Cllr Hannah Bithell
  60. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  61. Cllr Hannah Bithell
  62. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  63. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  64. Councillor Peter Hunt (Calderdale Council)
  65. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  66. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  67. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  68. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  69. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  70. Cllr Hannah Bithell
  71. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  72. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  73. Cllr Hannah Bithell
  74. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  75. Cllr Hannah Bithell
  76. Councillor Joe Thompson (Calderdale Council)
  77. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
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  1. Councillor Joe Thompson (Calderdale Council)
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  3. Andy Rontree
  4. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  5. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  6. Andy Rontree
  7. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  8. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  9. Cllr Richard Smith
  10. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  11. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  12. Matt Edwards
  13. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  14. Matt Edwards
  15. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  16. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  17. Cllr David Nunns
  18. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  19. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  20. Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  21. Cllr David Nunns
  22. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  23. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  24. Jo Dent Assistant Director People & Transformation
  25. Cllr Hannah Bithell
  26. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
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  1. Andy Rontree
  2. Cllr Ralph Berry
  3. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  4. Cllr Harry McCarthy
  5. Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair)
  6. Webcast Finished

Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:00:00
for September everybody settled good right so let's start with the apologies
for absence

1 Apologies for Absence

2 Declaration of Disclosable Pecuniary Interests

Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:00:13
thank you any declarations of disclosable pecuniary interests no none

3 Possible Exclusion of the Press and Public

the minutes of the meeting held
on the 22nd of August. Are we
happy to approve those? Yep.

4 Minutes of the meeting held on 22 August 2025

Good. Right. So coming from

5 Recommendations for Consideration

that on page seven we have the
recommendations for
consideration. So as a result
of our recommendations we have
approving the scrutiny calling we decided that we would make some
recommendations on top of that about trying to improve the governance and
Processes for Wicca as a whole so we then came up
Right, so you need to go back to the pre meeting pack in order to get them so these were on page
Five of the pre meeting pack where we've got the conclusions reports which any committee
22nd of August, 2025.
So we've got the conclusions that we reached and we've then got some recommendations.
Now, Khalid, in the pre -meeting we discussed some of those at a high level, but before
we go into great detail, can you just, what ones are we changing?
Suggest that recommendation three is changed to include a six month, specific six month
timeline.
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:02:13
and recommendation six has changed from laymen to laypeople and recommendation ten has changed
to put more emphasis on the political accountability element, ensuring political accountability
of lead members in policy development.
Do you want to read out what that amendment is for the public who are listening in?
Sorry?
But on page seven of the pre -meeting.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:02:35
The full wording that was discussed was ensure political accountability of lead members overseeing
policy development within their portfolio, leading debate and answering at the combined
authority and engaging directly with scrutiny, relevant committees and the public.
Sorry.
To ensure political accountability of lead members overseeing policy development within
their portfolio, leading debate and answering at the combined authority and engaging directly
with scrutiny, relevant committees and the public.
Okay. Right. So, are we now, any other comments they would like to make about the recommendations?
Anybody would like to make? Yeah. Councillor Rhodes.
Thank you, Chair. Not in reference to the recommendations, but could I just remind people,
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:03:25
and if I'm wrong, please do correct me,
that we're not just a scrutiny committee,
we are an overview and scrutiny committee.
And everything in the report should head overview
and scrutiny because that gives us the opportunity
through whatever means our process is available
to actually have time and consideration
for items either going to the forward plan
that need an overview in terms of what, if any,
issues need to be scrutinised from there on chair.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:04:06
We should use our full title, not the abrasion version. We all know what we are, but it's
a perfectly valid point. Anyone else have anything else they would
like to make? Councillor Merritt.
Yes, I just wanted to reinforce the amendment to recommendation 3, which is for a minimum
six months and reason that we're saying that is if we're going to do
pre -scrutiny which I think we all recognise is perhaps one of the most
important functions that we do we need to see when items are coming up long
enough for us to say right we need to have a look at that organised meetings
produce appropriate recommendations to feed into the process so that six months
Cllr Richard Forster - 0:04:52
is crucial if you look at the forward plan on this agenda,
we've got one month at the moment.
Cllr Dave Merrett - 0:04:57
We wouldn't even be able to get a meeting
before the decision had been made with that.
Right, so yes.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:05:05
Yes, just echoing the points that Betty and Dave made,
it will seem to me to be a change in strategy
Andy Rontree - 0:05:13
and for the better, I feel, if we're
seen as a body that looks at policy development
Kate Haigh - 0:05:21
and changes before they're changed or introduced,
rather than being seen as commenting after the post -hoc
Paul Godwin - 0:05:28
way.
And I think that change of emphasis
will help on both sides and certainly
make the organisation more democratic.
But it does need a change of emphasis from where we are,
I think, for the better.
Well, there is no doubt that there's
a lot of expertise around this table,
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:05:46
and we can definitely add value.
And that's why most of us are here,
is to add value so that WICA, at the end of the day,
becomes a better organisation, makes better decisions,
both for our benefit, but mostly for the public's benefit
as well.
So yes, I would totally endorse that.
So anybody got any other comments?
So in that case then, the recommendation
was that we've tabled them for consideration.
We've made comments.
we've publicly advised of the amendments that we're putting to it so presumably
everyone is happy no one is wanting to vote against not good we're approved on
that one so we then go on to item six the devolution and integrated settlement

6 Devolution and Integrated Settlement Readiness Update

update right before we do that there is one new member of street in a who maybe
Sarah and you haven't come across before do you want to introduce yourself yes
thank you and I represent Kirk store and I'm chair of the infrastructure
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:07:00
investment and inclusive growth screening board so okay so Sarah can you
just briefly introduce who you are so that thanks a bit so knows who you are
and then if you just give us a brief outline as to what's in this paper and
then we'll go into questions.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:07:14
Welcome. So I'm Sarah Eaton, I'm Director of Strategy. It's a short and abridged version
of the title. It used to be Strategy, Communications and Intelligence, so I've got a range of functions
within the organisation that I'm responsible for. But obviously today to talk to you about
devolution and the integrated settlement. So I'll kick off, shall I? So I'm taking the
colleagues have obviously read the paper, but I just thought it might be useful to give
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:07:39
a quick run through and where I can all update
as some work is already started,
particularly around the integrated settlement.
So we've previously come to the committee
and talked about both level four devolution
and I think we've been and spoken to you about
work around the kind of the devolution act
and the white paper.
And I think obviously when the bill landed in July,
that you can see kind of how some of that policy intention is kind of outlined in the
bill. But there's also some new things in the bill that perhaps weren't originally in
the white paper. So youth will probably just kind of touch on that as we come through.
So I think when the white paper landed there was a clear intention on the part of the government
and actually the previous government around both deepening and widening devolution across
across the country and I think that in part kind of signals for some of the things that are coming out in the bill.
Some of this is around I think trying to make sure that there is a consistency of approach
across the country and that what you're not getting which is which is currently the position where
individual areas kind of negotiate their kind of devolution deal which has been the kind of the practise in the past
but also you're making it much consistent and more easy for areas if they choose to
to kind of take up that kind of devolution.
So what it's doing is it's creating more of a framework really rather than kind of having
that one -off deal making which I think is quite important in terms of making sure some
of the things that I'll talk about in a minute are in place really.
And what it does is it creates that kind of new tier of kind of regional government England
and which is called strategic authorities.
And they've kind of got that responsibility
for strategy development and programme delivery
over that kind of larger functional economic area.
And I think to recognise the fact that we've kind of got
lots of different kind of sizes and different shapes
of strategic authorities coming forward
and new ones in the pipeline,
there are three levels of strategic authority
that seems to be set out in the paper.
And West Yorkshire falls under the kind of
established mayoral category
as a result of that as access to more powers and responsibilities than the other areas.
So what that has given us, moving forward, is that access to an integrated settlement,
which is clearly something that colleagues will be well aware we've been pushing for,
particularly when the trailblazers were announced over previous years.
I think one of the new bits in the bill that wasn't set out in the white paper as well
is around clearly defining the seven areas of competence
for combined authorities which is set out in the paper.
And what that's doing is saying these are the functional areas
that we think strategic authorities should
be focused on moving forward.
And that then translates into the devolution framework,
which is set out in the paper.
So the devolution framework is something
that you'll have seen previously through level 4 devolution
where there was a range of activity
that areas could sign up to.
And that says these are the things
that we expect strategic authorities,
combined authorities to be responsible for.
Not everything that potentially we will have access to
or be involved in is set out in that framework.
So for example, we will have access
to non -statutory offers, because the bill is
around statutory areas of work.
but there will be other kind of partnership and funding arrangements that were set out
in the white paper. So for example, there will be other legislation coming through around
rail that might give access to greater partnership enhancements that will come through in that
legislation, not through this particular bill. The bill will enable mayors to appoint up
to seven commissioners to potentially lead on each of those areas of competence and enable
to determine their portfolio of work and where appropriate delegating functions are but that
is not mandatory and that is up to each individual area to decide whether or not they want to
kind of use that kind of opportunity if they so wish to do so.
But there are some clear powers that come through in the bill, particularly around the
general power of competence and that's kind of an existing broad power which will now
to the local authorities which can be applied across those seven areas of competence. There
is also in there a power to convene and a duty to respond and that allows mayors to
call on local partners to come together to address local challenges and makes local partners
have that ability to respond. That's talking in some respects to the convening power that
that's kind of referenced in the white paper.
And then also there is in there a duty to collaborate.
And that will allow mayors to kind of call upon mayors
in neighbouring areas, strategic areas,
through a formal process so they can kind of
enter into collaboration.
We can always see, I think we've taken a report
to the CA recently where we were talking about
some of that partnership activity that's taking place
because we know that some of the work that we do does not,
and I'm pleased to see Councillor Merritt here,
but some of the work that we do is not just defined
just by the boundaries that are on a map and we do work cross boundaries so that ability
to work across the place is kind of incredibly important.
And obviously one of the things in the bill is the ability to ask for additional powers
so the government consistently say that this is the floor not the ceiling, there's a greater
ambition around powers and functions that might come to strategic authorities but one
of the ways in which they will facilitate that is through a right to request and that
will enable established male or strategic authorities
by their mayors to ask for further devolved powers
from government.
So there is some work taking place
and some guidance taking place within government
at the moment about what that might look like
and how that would work in practise.
Because I think, obviously, through other mechanisms,
we have asked previously through the spending review
and other mechanisms for greater access to funding and powers.
And we will continue to do that.
the right to request is a mechanism that is official we could call upon to do that.
And there are some other statutory functions in there, which in the paper, so for example
the ability, the need now to produce a spatial development strategy, just transfer of fire
and rescue functions and that public safety competence and obviously that is something
that we'll need to think about when we kind of implement change once the bill has received
royal assent. There are lots of other things in the bill but this paper is concentrating
and things that I think are around impacting greatly
on the strategic authority.
But there are aspects in there, aren't local government
structure and accountability.
So there's new measures in there around audit
and local government, making sure
that that accountability is in place.
And I think I referred to that earlier about that consistency
of approach across strategic authorities
and being able to hold strategic authorities to currently
something that is referenced in the bill.
And obviously, there are things in there
the community. There are things in there that we will see flow through once that bill is
making its legislative path through parliament. There was a second region on September and
there is an intention for it to become law in spring, summer 2026. That is important
There are lots of new strategic authorities coming through and they will need this legislation
to enable them to elect a mayor next year.
So we are continuing to do quite a lot of work around understanding what the devolution
bill will mean for us.
We did quite a lot of work on level 4 and we are using that as the basis for some of
this work to take us forward.
Some of the key activity we have done is develop a work programme so we are getting ready for
some of this work. For example, we are doing quite a lot of work around thinking what governance
might look like. I know you have had conversations about governance but that is something we
will be thinking about as we move forward to make sure we are ready for some of the
bill when it lands. Not all of it will come at the same time. For example, on the spatial
development strategy, we've already started that work, we've already started talking to
partners about what that might mean so that we're ready over quite a long process to kind
of do that work. So some things we know more about, some things we've got less detail on
at the minute and obviously our work programme needs to take account of the fact that this
isn't all going to land at one point in time, some of it is coming forward as we kind of
speak. So in terms of the integrated settlement, the integrated settlement was initially piloted
through two trailblazers in Greater Manchester and West Midlands and it's been extended now
to cover seven areas. So the established areas and the GLA as well have been pulled into
scope. There was a memorandum of understanding that those two trailblazers kind of signed
up to and that kind of governed the way the trailblazers would work and that has been
updated now through a policy document. So if you are interested there is more detail
out there around what the government is expecting from areas that receive an integrated settlement
and the principles of how they will work is set out in there. But what we will get through
an integrated settlement is funding through seven themes, through six themes, so they
don't completely align with the themes that are set out in the seven areas of competence,
but what we expect to get is some funding which will be attached to those six areas
and we'll also be required to develop an outcomes framework.
And that outcomes framework will set out key high level outcomes,
kind of measures that we will need to kind of deliver against
and funding that will be attached to those kind of measures.
So what it does do, I think unlike previous funding streams,
it gives us flexibility within those themes to kind of really think about
how we want to use that funding moving forward.
So there's a greater degree of flexibility.
and when we've talked to kind of the two trailblazer areas,
what they're saying effectively is that
what's allowed them to kind of,
what's been of most use through their experience today
has been that ability to kind of look within the themes
about how they use their funding
rather than have kind of simple funding pots
that they have to be kind of delivering against.
It gives us a little bit more flexibility in that space.
So the paper sets out some of the key workstreams
the
time table in there, so you can see where we are at. One of the
things we have to do to be ready for the
settlement is go through a readiness cheque and external
consultants are appointed through the government to work
with us over this next period of time. That work is about to
start. We have just had an initial meeting and that will
the next year. We will have a piece of work to do between now and December to show that
we are ready and able to be receptive to taking on the integrated settlement. We have done
some initial work within the organisation, the criteria are changing so we will need
to take on board what that new framework looks like as we move forward into this next period.
I think the other notable thing to keep our eyes on is when the government publishes the
formal quantum for the integrated settlement.
We were expecting that in autumn.
We know how long autumn can be sometimes, don't we?
The initial indication is that's going to be between mid and end of October, which means
that we will have a big piece of work to do around how we translate what we're doing at
the outcomes framework and aligning that with the quantum that is coming forward.
So I think I'll pause there but I think just to say that obviously we know that this is
a big piece of work for yourselves as a scrutiny committee and what we'd be hoping to do when
we have talked to colleagues in the team around when your working group is going to be taking
place so that we can kind of align some of the work that we're doing and things that
will be coming forward to your working group date so that we can bring things forward.
We are expecting there will be quite a lot to do within this next quarter and the following
quarter and obviously we will be hoping to work with yourselves through that period as
some of that work starts to progress.
I will stop there.
Thank you.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:20:35
So we can use paragraph 318 as your basis for any questions that you are asking.
So in other words, there is a work stream mentioned there, so if you mention which work
I'll start to go through them from top to bottom but knowing how sometimes we end up
going into varieties of space. So let's start with the first one.
Anybody got any questions about implementing the required governance and accountability
changes? Councillor?
Thank you. It says about the readiness cheque in the risk
area of the report .4 that it's unlikely that we wouldn't be able to address it to the government's
satisfaction but doesn't specify where we are in terms of our readiness cheques.
Just in case I've misunderstood, we are now checking our own readiness, they're going
to come in and cheque that we've checked properly and then give us some things that we might
have missed which we have to work on, is that correct?
We'll do a joint exercise between September and September which we'll do but we'll do
some initial self assessment.
Sarah can you use your microphone, sorry.
We'll do some initial self assessment against the criteria that the two trailblazers use
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:21:48
the criteria that is coming forward in this next period will be a revised set of criteria.
There's been a new consultant appointed to do that piece of work.
There are three areas that each individual establishment or authority will be judged against,
whether they're core, whether they're in the middle or whether they're excelling.
It's not there to trip up areas.
it's there to say if we want to go even further with devolution moving forward, these are
the things we would expect to be in place. There's a readiness cheque and we'll be doing
that joint piece of work between September and December. So we'll be kind of pulling
that forward and that's something we can talk to you about as we're moving into this next
period.
You can come back for a supplementary.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:22:34
Thank you. So is that different to the indicative timeline that talks about the completion of
Cllr Hannah Bithell - 0:22:42
combined authorities review of readiness on page 15 being potentially separate to the
government being in the process of appointing an external contractor to formally review.
We've done some work, so that's the old criteria I think, but there's a new framework coming
forward.
So we've had a quick look at how we might perform, so we've looked at all the documentation
that we might need to pull together for a readiness cheque, we've looked at some of the
areas that are set out in there, like for example, one of these is around strategy,
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:23:11
have we got some major strategies in place? We've done some work around that to prepare
for the formal readiness cheque just so that we can...
Just for my benefit, that work is where we've come to the conclusion that we are unlikely
to not be able to meet recommendations. That's where the evidence is, yeah?
There's no major, no kind of major things flagging up at the minute that mean that we
wouldn't meet the core criteria. Thank you.
I think it's where you might move into the other categories that is the next piece of
work that we can do.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:23:42
Councillor Haig, then Councillor Merritt.
Thank you.
One of the great concerns of this committee I think is about accountability, especially
democratic accountability for decision making.
And you mentioned, and it's a 3 .6 in the report as well, appointing and remunerating up to
seven commissioners.
Kate Haigh - 0:24:06
Is that something that the mayor is likely to want to do?
If she does, then how do they fit in with thematic groups, scrutiny, and at what point
does an actual elected person take responsibility for those decisions?
So at the minute we've not discussed whether or not we would want any of the commissioners.
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:24:28
I think if you have a commissioner you would need to you would need to kind of pay for them as well
So there's a there's a cost to having commissioners
I think where the government mind and want to see is
Kind of point commissions where they might be something where there's an area of expertise that we would want to pull into the organisation
so for example
around planning or
There is something that potentially we've not been involved in previously or for example health
So if we are taking on additional kind of responsibilities in relation to health and we need to do more alignment across the health agenda
There might be opportunities where we would want to pull in somebody that would bring in that that further expertise
So so but we've not at the minute. I don't think we've sat and said well, we definitely want a commissioner because probably
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:25:14
Probably something for the mayor. So what we'll do is we'll take a note of that question
We'll send it to the mayor and we'll ask her to give her a response to you
clearly intend to ask them at the same question but in your understanding of
Kate Haigh - 0:25:29
how commissioners would work how is the democratic accountability because I
don't that's not how they work in other areas necessarily it's not about have you
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:25:41
had any discussion I mean you can just bring in an officer who's an expert
like you and paid them according to me have you even had any informal discussions with the
mayor about how it might work if you've not had any informal discussions even
You can't at this point give an answer to that. We've not had those discussions around
How that would work in practise and I think that's largely because you know
The bill is working its way through and we need to work out kind of what this means for some of the functional areas
So some of that level of detail is not there at present. So we've not had that conversation, but clearly there is a democratic
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:26:15
Responsibility within the organisation for making decisions and we would need to be ensuring that we we follow and make those decisions
So I don't think we would necessarily then be kind of making decisions through a commissioner
They would be potentially operating that kind of advisory role
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:26:29
We'll definitely report that question to the mayor and ask that we get a written response to that point. So kind of some merit
Thank You chair
It's also on the risk and mitigation section section 4 .3
where you're discussing whether the powers that we're going to get are necessarily going
to be quite right potential issues in terms of where they're not.
And you've said that significant work's underway.
What's the time scale on that?
Where is it going to be reported?
And can you give us a heads up on where you think there might be problems at the moment
at least?
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:27:09
So I think this is where previously where we've looked at some of the powers and we
do not think they necessarily go far enough in terms of responsibilities. A good example
of that is around skills, for example, where we think there is additional kind of activity
that we would want to do, for example, in that 16 to 18 -year -old space. For example,
around a push for kind of an all access to kind of all the level of funding that you
would get through the skill system.
So we're pushing around some of that,
and there are things that potentially through a right
to request, we would be asking for additional powers.
Because part of this is around being able to kind of influence
the system and make sure that we're
able to kind of work through the pipeline.
So the 16 to 18 -year -old is one where at the minute,
we've got the ability to work with 18 -year -olds.
But actually having access to people earlier
through that pipeline of learning and training would be beneficial.
And we've been doing quite a bit of work through, for example,
our response to the spending review to continually push for these.
When we respond to the autumn budget statements that we fetch to the combined authority,
we continually make some of these points.
And I think the danger is that, I guess, as more interested parties comment on the bill,
that the powers could reduce.
And what we want to do is to be able to use the full extent of those powers
to be able to deliver obviously for the communities across West Yorkshire.
Thank you, Chair. Just in terms of some of the other areas that you've talked about,
what work is going on in terms of looking at the health and the public safety and these
other things which perhaps are not as well defined. And I'm thinking particularly on
public safety, in one sense it looks sort of fairly narrow, sort of policing, fire and
so on.
But, you know, we seem to be having increasing problems with community cohesion, with reemergence
of racism, a lot of problems around that.
Is public safety and the powers that are proposed going to be adequate to look at some of those
types of challenges and what are we doing on that?
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:29:34
The powers at the minute are around fire,
the fire service and potentially around local resilience.
So there's an opportunity I guess to the local resilience
side to pick up some of those issues.
But at the minute it's I think one of the big things
is around transfer of powers relating to fire.
And again, I think it's a timeline for bringing on
those powers.
We understand that some of the new areas will
potentially bring those powers forward sooner than
kind of established areas.
Obviously, some areas within the country have
already got access to those kind of powers anyway.
So some of the work that we're looking at is around
how other areas have done some of this previously.
Clearly we've got some previous experience of transferring police and crime powers into
the combined authority, so we've got that as a backdrop in terms of how we might go
about doing some of that work as we progress forward.
But at the minute, those are the things that are set out in the framework in terms of the
powers that are coming forward.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:30:41
Yeah, to Tinder.
Thank you, Chair.
So, Councillor Merritt, we have existing community cohesion programmes that the Combined Authority
Satinder Sahota, Interim Assistant Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:30:58
quite successfully delivered to key areas or key communities across the region.
I imagine what you've touched on will be picked up.
In terms of that translating into what, for example, the police may or may not do, that's
quite dependent and an operational matter for them.
I just want to focus on fire and rescue.
So West Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Service
is the fourth largest metropolitan fire and rescue
service in England and Wales.
The scale and responsibility of the transfer of governance
to this combined authority requires a huge amount of work.
I personally, as the existing monitoring officer
for another fire and rescue service,
I'm really looking forward to that in terms of the combined authority picking that up and so key features
For fire and rescue services and for you as elected members
Will be the focus on prevention and response. I
Hope that helps cancer merit
So just for the sake of the people who are listening in
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:32:03
We don't actually have any
politician to answer some of these questions today because to the best of
knowing I think there's a West Yorkshire leaders meeting so all the leaders are
currently that's where the mayor is as well that's why the mayor is not able to
be with us today. I'm not still ask political questions but we need we need
to be aware that the officers cannot answer political questions or political
dimension to them. Both the officers present today will give you good quality
answers but we need to be aware that they cannot stray on to political things
because they really are then in a bit of a, with the governance officer being
present they might then be reminded that that's what they want us to do. So that said, so
Councillor Godwin and then Councillor Raunch. Yes, we've been through a phase over the
Matt Edwards - 0:32:57
past few years of centralisation of power and now we're going back to
spreading it out again which I think this is a aim of doing but what I'm
unclear about is how the hierarchy of power is going to work
If there's a clash at the different levels so say for example
the
Paul Godwin - 0:33:20
Mayor wanted to do something in Bradford, but the people in Bradford Council didn't want to do it
How is that sort of clash if it couldn't be negotiated going to be dealt with in other words?
You do this because I say so and not because you agree at the end of the day
I think this is become going to become more and more difficult particularly when you're dealing with which you mentioned
16 to 18 year old education and
possible planning of routes of
Trams and housing developments etc. Where I feel there's going to be potential and probability of conflict
How is that going to be resolved?
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:34:06
I think we have well established partnership arrangements in this
region. I think we are not necessarily the case in other
areas and I think we do a lot of work with our partners to make
sure that we're not necessarily a position where the combined authority is saying you
must do this. I don't think that's necessarily where we've been at. And I know in terms of
the way that we do that we wouldn't necessarily want to be in that position where we're, you
know, we're enforcing things. I think the framework has been established so that it's
really clear about the functions that are delivered at different levels across the different
of government and I think again that's back to the point I made earlier around that consistency
of approach to make sure that it's really clear about who is doing what and we're also
kind of looking at what this means for different areas of our activity. So I think we've got
a good strong track record of working in partnership. I think the framework gives us and the seven
areas of competencies give us that defined areas that we would work in.
And I think where there is anything that we have to deliver in partnership, we would work
with our partners across the region to kind of do that.
And if there are areas that we do have disagreements in, we'd take them on board one by one, I
guess, and work them through as we need to do to kind of progress policy development
within the region.
So I think we've luckily not been in that position today.
I do think people do look at some of the working in this area, not with envy necessarily, but
we have had some good relationships in place.
But the framework is a good way of making sure that we have that delineation of activity.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:35:55
Is there anything in the proposals, the devolution proposals, as to what happens, are there going
to be any rights or veto given to any local authorities on anything, where it comes to,
For example, where housing could or couldn't be built.
Are there going to be any vetoes being made available or does the mayor have ultimate
decision making powers that she would like to bring all the local authorities with her
but in the event that she feels she needs to take a decision that is for the betterment
of West Yorkshire in her opinion and she's got a mandate for it, does the devolution
deal allow her to implement it or do the local authorities have a right to veto it.
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:36:45
So it's assumed they might be able to kind of give a bit more detail on this but the
proposals do give them air kind of like a kind of casting birds I think and but I think
in the spirit of how we work that is not necessarily something that you know we would want to be
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:37:01
kind of always enacting them and you know we've got CA decision -making kind of protocols
in place.
Only to get which should only be used in exceptional circumstances. I accept that but ultimately, you know
What might happen? I think there's we hope it never reaches that stage and everything will be done as consensual as possible
But it would be interesting. Do you know?
Any powers of veto
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:37:22
Just to confirm what Sarah's just said there currently are no powers of veto, but I think it's important to bear in mind
The draught legislation envisages the combined authority act in a different way.
So it is to be labelled or conduct itself as a strategic mayoral authority.
So if you apply the lens of elected members setting the strategies for officers to implement.
So the same principle applies.
The combined authority, as Sarah has said, with local district partners will agree the strategy
and then it's for that strategy to be implemented locally.
I think it's important not to forget that overarching principle in terms of the combined authority becoming a strategic authority
and not doing the doing so much, if that helps.
Yes.
Matt Edwards - 0:38:29
I mean, I know you probably all live in the world of consensus, but you're about to take
on health as well, and I can assure you that doesn't live in the world of consensus.
And there is slightly impositionary attitude from the Department of Health.
In fact, there's an entirely impositionary attitude from the Department of Health, and
and I wondered how that was going to work with this, against this consensus attitude
that you seem to be developing.
I have to say that taking on planning will be another of those areas where you might
think it's all going to be jolly and fine, but I can tell you for free that it isn't.
And I think putting in tram tracks is a typical example.
You only have to look at HS2 to find out what happens there.
And if you're going to be run something in the future through Shipley, I can tell you
there will be about 4 ,000 people oppose it,
even though it's entirely sensible.
Led by my colleague here.
I don't know.
I'm not sure what I'm saying.
I think it might be slightly pie in the sky
not to think about those powers of what you might,
people who might be opposed to a sensible strategy
as we consider by the combined authority.
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:39:39
And we live in that world now, don't we?
We are taking decisions that, you know,
And I've worked in a local authority
before I worked here for 30 years,
so I'm not adverse to understanding some of the things
that you're talking about.
I think the question was around how we will work collectively
together to ensure that we can make decisions.
At some point, if a decision needs to be made,
a decision will be made weighing up the evidence
around the best way forward, won't it?
And we understand that that is what
happens in decision -making processes and the combined
authority itself.
So even now we make decisions that not everybody necessarily
Always agrees with everything that we're making a decision on but we have to press press forward
Don't we on on making some of those decisions on health?
We'll be getting we'll be getting powers around health
And the mayor will potentially have a role on the integrated care board
But that at the minute is it's it's not clear what all of that will look like and we won't necessarily be
we will be sitting in that space with other partners like local authorities who also have responsibility for public health as well.
So we were expecting more around health as the 10 year plan kind of develops and comes out around some of that.
But again, the mayor will have that opportunity to sit on the ICB.
So some of that will flow through I think as we've not got an awful lot of detail around that.
and of course we won't be getting any funding
or to deliver around health.
So it's very much around the bill,
as I mentioned earlier, around some of the powers
around bringing that convening role, pulling people together.
It might not necessarily be around delivering
in some of that space.
Although we do quite a little bit of work
at the minute around things like health in all policies,
it's making sure that the work that we do in the combined
authorities taking account some of that public health
activity.
We have a joint appointment with the ICB, Jen Connolly who at the moment is already
making sure some of the work we are doing is taking account of some of the responsibilities
we will be getting through this bill.
I think we are a little bit ahead on some of the things set out in the bill that we
need to take account of moving forward.
But we are not necessarily going to be delivering on health, it will be around that convening
power that we will be looking at.
Andy Rontree - 0:42:11
Thank You chair and thank you Sarah my question if I can take you back to paragraph 4 .3 but
Colleague
counsellor merit raised
In the risks and mitigations and the concern that it says the concern that these measures do not go far enough in key areas
And I know you mentioned
skills and
Fe at that point
I'm just thinking if they don't go far enough. I mean, what's this mean for practise?
I'm assuming that a right to request and that's all the doesn't cut it then the concern is that
That's that's not that's not going to bridge the gap here. And I'm sort of thinking is this
something that
We just have to be prepared to take as a hit or I mean, it's true
this is probably as we're getting into the realm of politics here where you
won't want to go but it sounds like if this is the mayor's view then she might
be contemplating using her soft power to seek amendments to the bill. What is the
feeling about this? How serious is this risk? Is it going to
hobble us going forward or is there something that needs addressing at the
political level? What do you think? I think this bill definitely takes us
We will have an integrated settlement, more flexibility around how we use the funding
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:43:35
that we have got which is a big advantage and we are putting in place plans to ensure
that that is implemented from April next year.
I think we will use the right to request and we will continue to use our influence to shape
that bill as it works its way through and as we understand what that bill is coming
we will continue to, I guess, use all of the levers that we've got in our power to kind of press for that.
And the mayor will do that, but we'll also do that through some of the office groups that we've got
in terms of trying to shape and influence this as it moves forward.
But the right to request is something that I think is an opportunity, particularly for established mayoral authorities,
to kind of say these are the things that we want to explore in more detail.
and some of the work we are doing with the other established authorities is to make sure
that we have a shared view so we can use the weight of collective life to press where we
do think there is that opportunity to go further. But there is an ambition to go further and
deepen and particularly when we know we have some challenges that need addressing.
the work of the combined authority in the general public
Andy Rontree - 0:44:47
Thank you. Thanks for that.
One more, as I say, we've spoken about skills. Do you have any
other areas in mind where you think this is particularly
pertinent?
The reason for the question is a bit of a constant refrain for me.
responsibilities of the mayor and I think people sort of have a sense that it's to do with busses it's to do with trams and
Perhaps they might think well as the deputy mayor as the place as well
skills isn't very probably isn't very sort of widely known as a
thought of as a
Responsibility are there other areas in here that you'd like to mention at this point
Couldn't couldn't we go a bit further with this and couldn't we get them better known to the general public?
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:45:45
I think some of the other areas that we are pushing on are around fiscal levers, having
the right revenue raising powers to deliver. So there is some push around how we are properly
funded to do some of the work that we do, which is, for example one area is around that
we had in the spending review and some local authorities have been pushing is around, for
visitor levy is one area where it doesn't go far enough but
these are things that we will be continually trying to push
forward.
They are not new things, they are things that we have
consistently said these would be good things to have that would
enable us to deliver.
I think it is an important point around how do people know and
been doing a little bit of piece of work with our local authority partners around how we
can engage more around that, kind of using and gaining understanding about what the mayor
does but also kind of how this impacts and how we work collectively together to deliver
on some of these agendas because I think it's really important, I think the point that Inder
made, a lot of what we do is done in partnership, we don't just do this for ourselves as a combined
authority to be doing this because some of this funding flows through to local authorities
and it has a huge impact on the ground, which is why we're so passionate around the bill
and making sure that it gets to local people and communities and makes a difference to
their lives. But we definitely want to do more in that space.
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:47:32
Thank you, Chair. Hello, Sarah, thank you for the presentation today. And Chairman,
instead of going through a direction through 3 .4, I think the comments I want to make is
in general over the report we've got today. Thank you very much. It's obvious from the
today that taking a mirror image of Greater Manchester has actually influenced the report
of how the Combined Authority today is intended to go, and using that as an example, as you
have done in West Midlands as well, because we are aware of what the Greater Manchester
Combined Authority did take on in their first year of settlements from April 25, and they
were in readiness for it.
The question of readiness obviously is a big issue in terms of the governance arrangement
through the next process as well and I think that is a concern.
I think I'm also very concerned about what the bill is creating, Chair, in the general
power of competence and existing board, existing broad gender power which will enable merely
strategic authorities to undertake any lawful activity in response to part of your question
chair to achieve outcomes within the seven areas of competence as outlined above. Now
that in itself is actually a very, very broad range of powerful legal duties and the reflection
of those in terms of local authorities has got to be considered as well because when
you take into account planning and highways and other functions in terms of education,
attainment and all the rest of the other activities, then there's got to be the governance arrangements
and the support and indeed the resources to do it. But in terms of that in itself, the
question has got to be how does that reflect of the budgets and resources of local authorities?
Because once you've taken away the planning resources, you've taken away the housing resources,
and for my part of working in local government in the health service for many, many years,
I have to say I have grave reservations about the health agenda, because that's my portfolio.
and I'm really disappointed, I have to say, that going along the lines of Andy Burnham,
who was the first mayor to take this on, I don't know what experience you've had of it,
but I'm fearful that in terms of these issues alone, from a democratic point of view, it
takes away local democracy and indeed the voice of local people. Because I then go on
to the next point under 37, which says a power to convene and a duty to respond. And I think
this comes down to your question as well, Chair. This will enable mayors to convene
local partners to address local challenges. It will also place a duty on local partners
who we assume are going to be local councils and everybody in terms of partners, which
would be a health partner, to respond to a mayor's request when they make use of the
power to convene, the specific local partners covered will be set out in a subsequent secondary
legislation. We've had the first reading of the bill and we're going into the second reading
of the bill. So does that mean, Sarah, that there's more to come in terms of devolution
of powers from local people where they have the right through their local democracy to
actually work on behalf of their constituents. Now that's a worry and as
well as that I appreciate that under 310 you've got local government settlement
structures and accountability. Well a lot of us around here we have mayors anyway
but with the mayor structure in terms of the the new measures obviously some of
those may may reflect on there again the local people knowing their local
structure and I think there's a heck of a lot of work to be done in that one.
You've mentioned as well in it a policy document here about mayor's strategic
authorities, eligibility for settlements etc and forgive me I've been through the
document and I think there's lots for us to be concerned about in terms of the
future going forward. For instance you have a timetable in here under 321 on
page 15 and it sets out the framework here on the integrated settlement that's going
forward and it's a deadline date here as well. September to October government publishes
the formal quantum. Forgive me chair if there's words in here that may have further background
information but I think that information should be imparted to us all here to know what the
implications of that quantum is. And then in September to October the government is
going to publish again the formal quantum. Now we all know sitting around this table
a long time around dealing with all these things, we all know that there's always terms
of reference and consequences behind them. Could we have an explanation of what the quantum
is and what that's going to impact and where and what the emphasis is behind it?
I think the other part of the document in terms of the work on the devolution and community
empowerment bill and the integrated settlement, and it says there, it's been seen already,
further work will be required to ensure regional maximisations are available. So is that further
work going on in parallel with the other areas that are still to be brought forward in terms
of information, resources and outcomes. I've always had a view on outcomes, Chair. You've
got to see the worth of them. And I think when we come to it in terms of another issue,
if I may, the Chair has identified as well as we all have here about the need to be working
in partnership. There's lots of partners involved. Those partners through a democratic process
have an accountability themselves.
And it actually says that West Yorkshire authorities and WICA will need to be strong and operate within agreed principles, agreed at a senior level.
Now, this is not a political question by any means, but what this is, is a query of what can be considered a senior level.
Because from an overview and scrutiny situation, members, no matter what level of a government they're at,
have to know a process of how you get through from the local democracy in terms of accountability to a senior level.
And how does that quote unquote senior level refer itself to WICAP?
There are several other things, Chair, that have issues that I've pencilled out here.
Sarah, it's been a long question and concerns, but I do think that at this point, again,
Chair, for scrutiny's purposes, I think the emphasis on this report should have been brought
to us far earlier.
We're in a process now where we're going to move to 26 before we know where we're at.
25 is nearly gone with a blink.
And the reassurance of what we're going to be able to do of resources through your good
self and others.
The last question on that is, is there, because of that process, Chair, and the need for resources,
which meaning people, staff, is there at this point a cost to the revenue now in order to
implement the needs of this future?
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 0:55:43
Right. A lot of the questions there are of a political nature. For example, poor
Rachel Reeves has got to answer the vast majority of these in the coming weeks.
I think if somebody could give her a solution to them I think she would
welcome it to be quite frank because that's what, when the devolution bill
first came out, the quantum of the financial problems we've got in this
country weren't probably well known and a lot of, well you and I have been
discussing this, that you know the government are going to have to make
some decisions and tough decisions as to where the money is going to go, what
they're going to spend it on, what they're going to release, how we're going
to fund the mass transit, is it through a tourist tax, is it through a roof tax, is
it through a mayoral precept, all of these, but to do that none of us
actually had no committee authority actually has these powers just now so
the government need to decide the consequences of it the Office of Budget
Responsibility will certainly have a comment on it Treasury will almost
certainly have big concerns about delegating to local government taxes and
powers because they like to keep things under their wings so answer what you can
Callad has taken a note of everything that Councillor Rhodes raised.
Some of them do require people other than yourself, a senior, or a higher pay grade,
if I can put it as diplomatically as that, to make some of those known.
Because they were very good questions, but...
And I can answer some of them.
Right, so I say, answer the ones you're willing to answer, but I don't want you to get yourself into bother.
I'm not going to get the problem of that.
And we can have all the conversations, I think,
with some body -
To provide clarification if need be.
But the intention around the general power of competence
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:57:43
is not to say, well, you can just do absolutely anything
that you want, and you can take powers away
from local authorities.
Indeed, so that power is linked to the seven
areas of competence.
So we wouldn't be able to start getting
into the realms of working on education or SEND
or any of those areas, that just would not be possible.
And nor would we be getting the budgets to enable
us to do that piece of work.
And I think, back to the point that I made earlier,
I think what this bill is doing is being really clear
about what strategic authorities would do,
and really clear about what's in the domain
of local authority.
So this isn't about wholeheartedly shifting
the powers away from democratic accountability
at a local level to a strategic authority.
That is not what this is about.
So I hope that provides some reassurance.
But what it does do is give some freedom to say, well, actually,
if we get resource around transport,
but we think there are some opportunities there
to look more broadly around how that transport works
in a local area.
And we're not rigidly sticking to things
that don't allow us a digitised question
think about how we might implement if that makes sense. I think on the quantum for the
integrated settlement, at the minute what we know is that there will be a number of
funds that are currently already, that we may already access that will be brought together
in the themes that I talked about earlier. So I think I said at the integrated settlement
there will be six themes and we know that there will be various funding that will be
coming forward under each of those themes. So we potentially know what some of those
funding streams are now, we just don't know the level of funding that will necessarily
be coming our way under each of those funding streams.
And there will be a level of flexibility in the integrated settlement.
We know that we'll be able to kind of move 10 % between those funding streams.
But as I said earlier, because we're pulling lots of funding streams together potentially
under theme, that gives us more ability to be flexible about how we use that resource.
What we don't know and what we won't know until we get that information, and some of
is linked to the fair funding review and the budget, we won't know the exact amounts of
money that we will be getting. We will know some of the measures and the targets that
we need to deliver against. So whilst there might be not any greater pots of money, the
flexibility in that money might give us some opportunity to kind of say, well actually
we think this is the way that we'd like to spend that money, based on what we know already
around evidence in West Yorkshire. So I think if there's more information needed about clarity
around the bill. I think there is, I'm not going to lie, there is going to be quite a
bit of work for us to do between now and December to prepare for the integrated settlement.
But obviously the bill is on a bit of a longer term trajectory. Where things are coming forward,
so for example on spatial development strategy we're trying to engage in conversations about
them through our partnerships to make sure that we're engaging and we're involving people
throughout this process. But as I said earlier, it's not all going to come at once. So as
things come forward we will clearly be talking to colleagues around some of that. I want
to provide some reassurance, this isn't about strategic authorities taking over and doing
everything and taking that power away because clearly the local authorities have an incredibly
important role and we work with you to deliver locally so that is not about that.
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 1:01:55
for five years and it's so important to understand what the outcome of this is going to be. For
instance you've got what's called local place, that's on the ground tier of the funding that's
put through to your local health in your own authority. It's overall ICB body is up there,
the board. Now in terms of that as a situation, this is very concerning. It's very important
to local people and it will be until we get some clarification of how this is going to
work in terms of the issues around local people, housing and health. It's so important. For
instance, we've had a maternity birthing ward closed down in our authority at a time when
neonatal and obstetrics. Leeds and Bradford, as you know yourselves, are one of them. That
was passed down, they agreed, and it was passed down to the local place board. Now, through
that process of trying to look to keep a facility for birthing at one of our hospitals, that
was backed by hundreds and hundreds of local people in protest at the loss. And it was
closed down originally because the lack of staff, and they moved staff away from it to
of his article. That's what happened. Now that ICB board went down to the local board
and the local board made a decision to close it. It was temporary, it's permanent now.
In that process all I want to identify to you and in terms of housing strategy and everything
else is that in that process democracy took its place in the community, in people. What
I can't see in this, and I've been looking at Andy Burnham's house over there, I cannot
see in this where local people, through their local representatives, are going to be able
to have the right to do as our constituents have done over a period of time. And that's
just an example and it doesn't give you any more detail other than you followed Andy Burnham's
policy over there. I think everywhere is different, everywhere is different and there's no general
fit for all everywhere but I have to say that to me and other things that's happening needs
a lot more clarity for the people of our local districts.
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:04:39
Making sure that we've got calling procedures. Any go Sarah.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:04:40
Just in terms of health, we won't be getting any funding at all to deliver on our health.
I think the 10 -year plan for health as well as kind of talking about the role of strategic authorities,
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:04:50
which I think is this strategic role,
talks about neighbourhood health quite significantly.
And I think, you know, that ability to work at that neighbourhood level, which I think has been done,
is something that is a feature of the West Yorkshire health system.
It's something that is featuring in the 10 -year plan.
So I think neighbourhood health plans will still exist.
The funding, as far as I'm aware, will still flow through to local committees.
Currently, the plans aren't that we would get any resource to deliver on health.
So in terms of the functional responsibilities around health,
it will be at the moment around that convening power,
it will be around a health policy's power,
it won't be about delivering some of the things
that you're currently talking about
in terms of flowing through to that local area.
That's not what we've got in front of us at the moment.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:05:48
But the combined authority is going to be given responsibility
for the infrastructure needs of the whole of West Yorkshire,
where they're going to have to summon
all of the major providers of services,
including the health service.
And one of the roles of the combined authority is to make sure that they are putting in place
sufficient infrastructure needs to meet the development needs of the West Yorkshire area,
which means that someone's going to have to decide.
And if it's been set at a strategic level, you might say, right, we need an extra six
hospitals, but someone's going to have to implement those six hospitals.
And that's when you're going to have confusion as to where is the hospital going to be, is
going to be in position A which is near you know and more precisely what you're
going to do in some parts of Calderdale which is our rural are really our rural
and it's how you're going to make sure that there is access to services there
it's fine if you go if you didn't Halifax or if you're in Leeds or if you're
in Dewsbury you'll have access to those things but if you're in some of the
outer areas the same thing in Leeds as well the rural areas it's that's where
You're gonna get very complicated
but I think we'll part that one and we'll put that into making sure that when we
Look into these work streams more thoroughly. We are to agree to detail though
Taking forward. So on that basis could I call council McCarthy then cancer berry then counsellor Edwards?
Thank you chair in
316 and 317 of the report it's talking about
an outcomes framework which kind of forms the basis of any agreed funding and also will
Cllr Harry McCarthy - 1:07:36
have targets that are aligned to it. And also an outcomes programme board which will serve
as the mechanism of contact between the combined authority, central government and also have
a role in overseeing delivery. My question is about what would the extent of elected
members be in terms of both determining the outcomes
framework and also overseeing or even participating
in the outcomes programme board?
I guess my question is, there's already
a sense among some elected members
that the combined authority is very officer -led.
And because we don't directly sit on the combined authority
itself, we're co -opted into it.
A lot of these roles are overseen by leaders, for example.
So yeah, if you could look into that, thank you.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:08:28
So in terms of the outcomes, the government will work with us
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:08:32
around a series of measures that we will need to kind of implement.
And some of those are measures, so already, you will already see published
the measures that the Trailblazers are working towards at the moment.
and as money flows into the individual themes,
there will be a set of measures that we need to work.
So some of that is going to be prescribed measures
that we will need to deliver on to pull the funding down.
I think some of those measures will,
some government departments have got quite a significant number
of measures in space, others have got less.
So we haven't got complete freedom, is what I'm going to say,
to just pick and choose what we deliver for the resources that we're going to get, we
will have to negotiate around those outcomes framework.
There will be a tight timeline between now and December to kind of understand which of
the measures we want to take forward against what outcomes.
So it might be there in this area.
In Manchester they want to focus on one thing, but that's not a priority in our particular
area.
These are things that we want to focus on, which will decide the measures that we want
to take forward.
the quantum will then decide how much of those things that we can deliver.
The outcomes board at the minute, one hasn't met in Greater Manchester or in the West Midlands
at the moment, they meet six months after to kind of review progress on targets.
That's how we understand that those boards will work.
But we've got no more detail on how that would work at the moment.
but obviously as we work our way through we can talk about how that would operate.
Is that OK in terms of answering the question?
Yeah, thank you.
We can definitely provide more detail once we get that detail.
It's not so much a supplementary question, more of a comment I think, just to say as much as possible can I make sure
Cllr Harry McCarthy - 1:10:30
to leave some elected member oversight of what that's doing because it does seem quite, it's very prominent for example
than the policy document that the government has sent out.
So yeah, thank you.
We can definitely pick that up.
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:10:41
Councillor Barrie, then Councillor Edwards.
Sorry, Councillor Barrie, then Councillor Edwards.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:10:46
Following on from colleagues,
I'm concerned that we get the transparency
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:10:51
and the ability to explain what's going on
much clearer to people out there
because there is a bit of a crisis of legitimacy
in local government.
And Redcliffe Maud was a long time ago
and this is proving to be more convoluted than even that.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:11:05
And therefore, the overarching purpose
needs to be clear that we're trying to make people's lives
better, and we're trying to restore the ability
and the belief in people to make things better,
because that's the bit that's becoming most corrosive.
But the starting point of that will all
hang on the formula discussions.
And let's see where we get to with the formula discussions,
because I'm keenly watching that.
And then there's some suggestions about where we might want to be looking at, where the
missing gaps are, working with young people, looking at the issues of need, training and
skills, DWP, really you can't achieve much of what we're wanting to do unless you can
join those pieces in the lives.
Because the overarching problem, like Dave was referring to, is inclusive growth and
inequality, right?
You can call it whatever you want,
but it's income inequality and shortened lives.
So we're not talking about the health service.
Local government lost that in 1947.
We're talking about creating healthy communities
to reduce the demand on a sickness service,
which we've gotten to that end on health.
The governance issues and the ICB,
which in West Yorkshire is generally considered
is to be quite far sighted.
I don't understand why, when you're looking
at the fire service, and I'm interested in that,
because they have some of the best data analysts
on risk and inequality that anybody's got.
So bringing that in and aligning it with health,
but why isn't the ambulance service part of this framework?
Because really those services reach into a similar area.
That's just perhaps an agenda.
I was chair of the YMASS board until 2006, and I'm aware of how much that reaches.
And I can't see how we can avoid looking at some of what's being done in Manchester to
begin to steer the health inequalities, but at the moment the health service is, to say
the least, a stressed organisation about structure and form.
You'd need some of that to get through.
So I'm concerned that we can't alter this.
What some of my colleagues are saying is,
what are we trying to achieve?
How do you explain it to Mrs. Jones on Coronation Avenue
or Mrs. Wiggins and Whibsey?
Because I'm a complete local government nerd.
I've been doing it for decades.
But I am beginning to worry about how we explain this
to people who are feeling they're not better off,
that they can't get to where they need to,
and their lives, the strategies need to be distilled
into something a bit more tangible is what I'm saying.
Because I'm coming here, I spend a lot of time,
and I can see a lot of money coming through,
and I can see some really good things that,
I don't want this to sound like a criticism,
but there is a bit of a wiper speak
that we need to distil back into people's lives.
I'll finish at that because I think there's a huge amount
to be made clear yet, but I don't think we're necessary.
I think we're not asking for some of the things that,
well, we need to ask for some other things and powers.
But we're still circling around this problem
of what's the relationship with the local elected
democratic responsibility.
And that does need some serious thinking.
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:14:39
So I think the point around, a point around how does this,
what does this mean in practise is a point well made.
I think this is a paper isn't on a bill,
and translating that bill into kind of what will change
and what will make a difference to people's lives
is, I think that's an important point,
and that's one that we'll definitely take away and have
a think about as we progress this next period of work.
We are looking at how we do some of that engagement
more broadly.
So I think that is a really good point well made.
Just on health, I think it was probably remiss of me
not to say that some of the work that we've done
around housing or policies, it is around things like healthy working lives, so how do we work
collectively with colleagues in the health system and the local authorities around skills,
for example, and making sure that people can get into work. So we're already doing some
of that working partnership collectively together because we know that that will make a difference
to people's lives and people will be able to access more resources and jobs. So some
of that working stuff that we're already kind of, I think, working quite collaboratively
on. We have got a healthy lives board which I think all local authorities are part of.
So I think your point around this is about healthy communities and it's about making
that difference on other people's lives is something that I think when we are thinking
about writing these reports we could do a little bit better on. So I will definitely
take that one away.
and therefore terms like convening.
I mean, obviously, convening is all over the education system.
Sorry.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:16:14
The use of the term convening and convening partnership
is usually a way of describing, ooh, that's difficult.
We need to get lots of people together.
I think just back on some of the language,
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:16:25
language isn't our language as well. Just to say that this isn't language, this is the
language in the bill and I think what we are trying to do is show you what's in the bill.
What I wouldn't want to do is go away and start talking about something different to
me. But I definitely take on board the point about what does that mean for us. What we
are trying to do is explain something that is a very long bill, there is a lot of detail
and technical information in that into some vestige of something that explains, but I
take the point around what will that mean for the work that we do moving forward.
Matt Edwards - 1:17:19
So in response to Councillor O 'Toole's question, you said that the proposals are not there
to try and take powers away from local authorities.
But in reality in terms of what's been proposed for some of the planning stuff, for example
There is kind of an element of taking some of the power away from local authorities and what's being proposed
So the spatial development strategies will sit above local plans and there's an expectation that local plans
most comply with the spatial
And the SPS is but there's not necessarily the same implication that the SPS must comply with the local plans
and then once adapted the SP the
SDS's will form part of the material like the planning considerations or
planning committee. Councillors must take into account what the SDS said and
that's that will take primacy in that so if that contradicts with the local plan.
So effectively there is an element of effectively a bit of power shifting on
the spatial planning stuff up to the WICA level and I mean Councillor Berry said
earlier like planning is one of those issues that it's obviously very
contentious and the public feel very frustrated that they don't get much say in this process as it is and
That's with councillors who were their elected representatives in the mix when you start taking in the white care, which feels a lot more distance
There's a real risk that that actually could start
eroding the public confidence in the planning system if all of these decisions are being moved up at here just something that's much more much less
accessible for them.
And I was going to ask if you'd say a bit more about what
work's being done on that already,
but given the time constraints, I
won't ask you to do that.
But just quickly, are there any conflicts or challenges
you see in terms of what WICA is going to encounter
in that kind of sphere?
And what specifically are WICA going
to do to ensure that the public do have consideration
in this?
Already, I mean, I had a look at some
of the websites between the different combined authorities
on the different development strategies and
and the ones I saw the WICA was the most difficult for me to understand like it
the some of the others were much better. So yeah I was just wondering if you
could just expand on some of that for us.
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:19:38
I do keep forgetting but we are doing quite a bit of work with local authorities in
this space at the minute and there's quite a long trajectory we are trying to
do some early work.
I think probably on some of the detail of that,
it might be useful for us to bring Liz in at some point,
Councillor Anderson, to talk about some of that work that
is taking place.
Because I think it's fairly complex, as you say.
There's lots of different, not different views,
but I think how we move it forward
is something that we're trying to do together
to make sure that we're not having some of the issues
that you've talked about.
I think the point around it not necessarily looking
great on the website in terms of how it's kind of explained,
I think, is something that I can take away.
But I think that might be something
that we need to get into a little bit more detail around,
is the spatial development strategy.
I wanted to break this question off secretly.
But I mean, when we talked about this,
we talked specifically about partners.
And in your answer there, actually, you
didn't say partners.
You said local authorities, which is good.
Because when certainly when you're coming into planning, I was just wondering to what extent
Why could see housing developers as being partners in this process?
And I think that's also where a lot of the distrust comes in that the housing developers are
Seen I seem to have an inroad in this process and that same in road doesn't necessarily philtre through to community groups
So they don't feel like they have the same way of being listened because obviously local authorities are going to work on behalf of residents
They have that that's their motive poor developers aren't there with the development
they're not there for the public good with their for the profit margins and
We just need to make sure that that's counted
And obviously I would say that it's just one of making sure that's being counterbalanced by making sure the public
Have an avenue to properly feed into this and community groups and residents associations and all of that because it starts getting massive when you start
looking at the speeds of work I
Can take we can definitely take that away I can feed that one back and that might be something that we come back and
And talk to you about as part of this work as it's evolving and I'll talk to colleagues around that
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:21:40
Council minute then came to the Bethel and counsellor hunt
Yes
to two things
the first I also wanted to ask about the strategic planning but
The other the relationships down have been covered what about the relationships with the National Infrastructure Commission?
the national
In first infrastructure plan and so on what will be the interrelationship will we?
Will the CA have any influence?
upwards
into future
Versions of the national infrastructure plan or is it in effect?
We just have to live with what comes down from the top in that respect
The other thing is I just wanted to pick up on
councillor
which I thought was extremely good about the issue of comms.
But I don't think it's just about comms.
I think one of the issues that we've got
is the system's become so complex,
people don't understand it,
and they don't see how it relates to them.
So the whole credibility of this whole superstructure,
we're all trying to do our best,
and people probably recognise
as we're trying to do our best.
But actually, as you say, they don't
feel they have any influence.
They don't see how it relates to them
and where they're saying is in it.
And the problem is the whole system
is becoming, as I say, losing credibility.
And that's big trouble down the line.
Sarah?
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:23:24
Yeah, I think just in terms of that ability to influence,
I think part of some of the work that we have been asking
is around that duty to collaborate with arms length bodies
because that is really important in terms of
not only that power to convene local partners
but that power to kind of make sure
that arms and bodies are around the table
and that we're able to influence
and talk to them in a way because that,
we do know that that is a challenge on,
particularly with some kind of agencies.
So I think that is something that we're continually
pushing for, and I think we would be wanting to make sure
that where we can, we can not only work collectively,
locally, but influence more upwards as well.
So yeah, but I agree around some of the complexity
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:24:10
of the systems that we work in are quite difficult,
aren't they, to explain to local people
in terms of what difference some of this makes to their lives.
I think there's some good points there
that we can definitely have a think about.
Councillor Bessel.
Sorry, Councillor Bessel, then Councillor Hunt.
Cllr Hannah Bithell - 1:24:27
Thanks, Councillor Anderson.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:24:28
Cllr Hannah Bithell - 1:24:29
Just a really quick one from me.
The equality and diversity implications in the report,
it says this report doesn't have any directly.
I think I can understand why that's what's been in there,
but actually the impact of this is gonna be massive
on our diverse communities.
So it would be really helpful for us to have
a quality and diversity assessment done sooner rather than later and scrutiny to see it so
that it doesn't become almost a tag in when we do it on the individual policies later
on. Thank you.
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:25:02
I think that's a really important point and I think everything that we're bringing forward
we will need to make sure that it's got those kind of EDI considerations. It's really, really
important just back to some of the points about what differences it's going to make
and how do we understand some of the impacts of this on our community. So completely take
that point and we will make sure that as we move forward it's really important to
me it's part of my team are really heavily involved in this and it's
something that we're trying to you know get better at across the combined
authority in terms of understanding and it's back to some of the health things as
well what we're trying to do is have an integrated look at EDI and perhaps
bringing in health into some of that as well in terms of how we understand the
implications across the organisation of things that we do so I will definitely
Take that one away and make sure that we keep that one up
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:25:49
Professor hunt. Thank you chair. I'll try and be very quick. So just a couple of points
Several counsellors already touched upon it, which is fantastic
Councillor Peter Hunt (Calderdale Council) - 1:25:55
It's about the fact that trying to explain to you the people so my residents for example
What wyke is who the mayor is and what their role in being in even their existences has been a sisyphean task
And obviously with the devolution framework coming in and the expanded remit the boulders now coming back down to the bottom of the hill
I'm having to sort of think about pushing it back up again.
So the point I want to make is, is there going to be a market, I don't like the word marketing,
a public information strategy and a budget that moves away from the usual arms length
explaining to the authorities can you tell the people who WICO is and what we're doing,
can there be something bigger and a bit more expensive thrown at it because the people
really do need to know who we are, what we do, this list of things is new to us.
Imagine what it is to the people.
So I think there needs to be something considered there on a strategic point of view.
The second point of view which segues into what I said earlier and also this is surrounding
what I see as a very unfortunate and dangerous unravelling of the social contract.
There seems to be a lot of anger out there and I'm looking at some of these issues that
we're going to be responsible for and already I can think, I can imagine what the louder
voices are going to say about things.
Transport, oh it takes ages, it's a waste.
Housing, I'm not even going to say about housing.
We know.
Public safety, if we're going to have a remit over public safety, is there, can there be
a contingency plan surrounding, I don't want to say civil unrest, but if things get difficult
in society, how we can actually carry out the remit and function of some of these things
we're going to be doing in a way that is palatable and works and builds community cohesion.
and safety if that makes sense.
So thank you.
Sarah.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:27:45
Yeah, I think there's lots of different ways
which we can communicate.
We can have a big campaign and spend a lot of money.
I think there are some other things that we could do better
and one of the things we've been talking
to our local authorities about is how do we communicate
with elected members in local authority
so that they feel better informed about the work
that the Combined Authority does.
We can definitely think about some
of those public campaigns, but I think
it needs much more of a multifaceted approach
around building that level of understanding, I think.
And that's something that local authorities
have been talking to us about, is around how are we doing
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:28:21
better elected member engagement.
So one of the things we're thinking about
is a programme of work that we could do collectively
across our local authorities to make sure
that elected members who are obviously at the coal
within their communities are better informed as well.
But we will be obviously looking at how we kind of communicate.
And it won't necessarily be just about the billet
or about the things as they, specific things as they come
forward about how it's best to land messages around what
that means for them.
But there's been some useful comments around that today
that I think we need to take away and we'll have a look at.
Yeah, right.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:29:03
So to sum then, right, in terms of paragraph 318, that's the one that we will be using
for our workshop groups.
We'll be working through each of those workshops.
I don't know what exists nowadays, but when I was younger we used to have Gantt charts
that would tell us where the programme, you're looking at me physical as to what the devil
is a Gantt chart.
I do know what a Gantt chart is.
Everyone loves a Gantt chart, that's what I was thinking in the back of my mind.
We've got some programme plans which we can talk to you about.
So that we know where we can fit in. Because there's no point in us asking you to produce a report on X if it's not quite ready to go into the public domain.
You and I were talking about things the other day that I was asking for and you were saying, yes, good idea, but we're not quite ready to make it public.
The one I was talking about was the risk register, you know, that we're not able to put that in the public domain yet
Which I think is a vital one. So we'll be walking through that
Khalid and Katie will be getting dates put in the diaries
For the develop the devolution working group. So if you're wanting to be part of it and by listening to what you said today
I think you do want to be part of it
We'll try and give you as much notice so that we can we'll be holding probably one a month. I would have thought
From now on to try and get to the bottom of what's going on here so that we're working with officers
In order to so we can bring things to their attention early in the cycle where things are not quite going
The way that the elected members would like and then we can have a debate as to what's happening
So that's that so thank you very much and thank you Sarah for today
Hopefully knowing you you'll you'll reflect back and a lot of the things that's been said today and you will move things forward
that constantly. So thank you very much. Thank you for your time as well. Right so on the other side of this coin we've got is it's
fine talking about the theory but how are we going to resource all of these
changes? Do we need thousands of more staff? Do we need hundreds of more staff?
Do we need people at a certain level of education in order to do it? Are they highly
skilled, lowly skilled? So the person who's got the answers to all of those
questions after building it up nicely.
Jo, do you want to outline what you've got in your report?
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:31:36
Thank you, Councillor Anderson. Yes, of course, and you're absolutely right. So
there's many parts to this journey and the bit that I wanted to talk about in
the papers are about the how, a little bit more about the how.
I think the key thing for me to say is the papers that we've shared, they're really early
insights into what we're doing, so it's been really fascinating listening to the comments
and feedback.
It's clearly really helpful and will influence as we develop, and that's what both of these
papers are also about, they're about that early insight.
So the first paper around the future organisational state, again, I'll take on, I won't spend
too much time going through it because I'm sure you've got questions, but it's primarily
around the conversations that we've had around how we, how we're operating model of the organisation
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:32:34
and the decision about whether to set up an arm's length body or not.
And as you can see from the paper here, that is something that we are not planning to do
at this moment in time based on the research that we've done
and the feedback and the benchmarking against others.
I think that in addition to that, to know the future direction
and it really hopefully complements what Sarah's been
saying is that we see our organisation focusing
on commissioning and convening and influencing
and therefore as a result of that not not being a local authority body where there's a
many many people employed but actually and the skill set being of
having that experience of a most a most senior level where they can actually facilitate coordinate and
Be involved in the different stages of the work that we need to do
I
think
to help in the early and early analysis that we've done we've we've tried to map
across some of the key skills that we think are needed across the seven areas
of competence as part of the paper and yeah really to give to get to share with
you that we've done we've done some some benchmarking and we'll stop there and
see if you've got any questions if that's all right. Thank you. This is a
Cllr Hannah Bithell - 1:34:15
really helpful paper in terms of the fact it proves that we're thinking about
this now. I guess my concern is how are we going to make sure that we're adding
value to our skills in the region and not just sort of being a drain on LA
officers because like you say there's a real skills gap that LA's are
suffering with planning and things like that.
So the potential for those to then, because it becomes so attractive to work here, moving
to here, and then actually it just compounds the issues elsewhere.
Thank you.
Happy to answer that.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:34:52
I've got a bit more detail in the other paper, but they are so closely linked.
So are you OK if I just...
Yeah.
So a really valid point, and actually something we're very aware of, and I will be as blunt
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:35:06
Saying we're at the point at the moment of identifying what they are and then that is helping pull together
What the what the strategies and plans are to actually then address them?
So I'm almost at the point where I'm identifying the need
That can help inform
What the what the recruitment and attraction strategies will look like and and and how we'll do it now
I can all we I'm already
Discussing and talking with people
locally and you know will and sharing high level resource planning with
council with other local authority leaders with universities and colleges
with because some of those things need to be around growing our own and having
the forward plan which is really key bit about workforce planning is about
understanding in enough time for us to where we can forward plan, how we attract from graduates
to apprenticeships, how we spend our levy, how we actually develop people who are already
in the organisation through that apprenticeship levy into future posts. As you can see again
straight into the other paper, one of the things that we're really keen to do is understand
how we can better manage our corporate memory and our resources so that I'm very conscious
that through all the things that Sarah's talked about, and I will use transport, it's not
just all about transport, but transport's quite a good example to use.
So where we are with brush franchising and the way I try and actually help segregate
phases is we've we've got we do we're in a development stage and then you move into delivery and then you move into what how you
operate
And the resourcing and the skills and the expertise you need for that
What we're doing on bus franchising is complete is a totally different timing phasing plan for mass transit
So in addition to understand to managing and forecasting resourcing
We're also trying to make sure that we've got a much more flexible workforce
So that as people come off one major project
Timings or it won't always work. Well, but we've we've got enough
Development to move them into the into maybe the next move people across the organisation
So there's a number of different work streams that we're actually trying to make sure
We grow and mature in terms of how we plan and pull many strands of this together
And the key things, as I keep saying about these papers,
is their early identification.
And the second most important point is they're a point in
time, and for me they're live documents.
It's almost like as part of your business planning,
your resource, that future longer -term resource planning,
it will be reviewed on a very regular basis so that we can
actually adapt and change based on funding streams might change,
our outcomes might change and how we can forecast that as much as we possibly can.
Working really closely with LGA, working closely with local authorities, partners, I've certainly
met with people already.
And that's probably about all I can say.
I mean, what we pay at the moment is we benchmark that and we will continue to benchmark that
and it's reasonably competitive.
It's going to be difficult, and we
know that people are going to be challenged,
and many other partners are going
to be looking for the similar skills at the same time.
And at the end of the day, the employees
got the right to be able to go and move and work
to where they want to go and move and work.
So I think it's about being open.
I think it's about sharing.
I think it's about a lot of a lot of
Like I said growing growing talent
And I think the last thing I want to say is there is a place for contingent labour in this, too
We just want to make sure that we're we're very clear about where we want that contingent labour
And that's why that's why I call this resourcing rather than workforce
Workforces are our people
Contingent labour will be where there's maybe some specific bits that we think actually
It's right and for the for some consultants to come and do that
piece but
But we also want to make sure that where we think that maybe some
Consultants is are taking that role at the moment. We switch that out and make sure that we maintain and retain
the
Expertise because it's something that we will need going forward
Cllr Hannah Bithell - 1:40:03
Yeah, thank you just a supplementary from sort of the other angle of have we it says in the paper about they're not being
Any risks and I guess my question is have we done a risk assessment for if we can't find the correct level of?
developed staff in terms of
Both externally but also if our current workforce aren't up to the next step
Now would be the time to be getting them there if that makes sense
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:40:31
Very good point and it was risks specific to that paper. So
as
a result of my sharing this both in
Internally and externally this will then
Form a change programme really with a whole series of workstream
So, you know very typical won't teach people to suck eggs in where this is our current situation
this is where we're heading to and we will have
I'm pulling together a programme of working with a couple of people in a transit and transformation team
who, every one of those will be a programme, it'll have a risk, it'll have a clear risk
register, it'll have a project inception, initiation document and we'll run it as a
programme of change where we track risk, where we track progress, where we try and anticipate
as much as we can.
Thank you.
Is that something that can come to scrutiny?
Yeah.
Thank you.
Cllr Hannah Bithell - 1:41:28
Yeah, kind of a brief comment first, and we do often allude to the fact that we are a
Councillor Joe Thompson (Calderdale Council) - 1:41:36
public board and members of the public may tune in, although I'm sure a lot of them have
got better things to be doing.
Just around the use of language, I found someone talked earlier about wicker jargon, and I
found there is a lot of that in this, and I was just wondering, obviously it's a very
early insight but as we move on and get more detail it would be good to move
away from some of that and because as I was going through it I was thinking to
you know to members of the public a lot of this reads as jargon and that's
always a concern for me when members of the public do choose to tune in. My
question is about artificial intelligence though and this briefly got
mentioned earlier and obviously the document doesn't directly reference it
much but it does have a digital blueprint and West Yorkshire and we do
reference data and digital but we're moving into a world now where some
estimates say that roughly 50 % of white -collar jobs will be lost to AI
within 10 -15 years and I was just wondering as we're thinking about
resourcing for the future if that's a theme that's coming out and something
that the West George Combined Authority is thinking about because I think a big
concern for myself and particularly in Calderdale is that I'm concerned that
that will be exacerbated in areas like Calderdale that they will feel a need to
Moving to Leeds Bradford, etc to find work and then that work may also go in future as well
So you've got a double impact and so that's why I wanted to ask about
Thank You councillor Thompson a very very
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:43:04
Good and current point so
first of all on the jargon
Thank you
And I'll make sure we read back through that and cheque that and maybe get some other independent people to read and give us some feedback
AI, we're about to start this journey along with a lot of our colleagues.
And so there is an AI strategy that's been pulled together at the same time.
Where we've started with that is we have got a trial that is starting around AI and focused
on using co -pilot because we partner with Microsoft for the tools that we use.
And there'll be a roadmap that will be pulled together as a result of that trial.
It is a very – other combined authorities are going through exactly the same thing at
the moment, so we're working with WestMIDS, we're working with TFGM and Greater Manchester,
and sharing learning in terms of how we do that.
Now, so I, without dipping out of the question,
I want to see what that advice is.
My initial thoughts on that at the moment
is I think we will need to pull some risk,
a risk register together about how we actually manage that.
My early indication would be that it might change
the way people do things more than lose things.
That's what I'm that that's my initial thought and I think that what
If there's any risk, it will maybe be at some entry grade levels that we might have to consider
but as I think I think there's a lot of a lot more emphasis needs to be put on it will change the way people
Do things and maybe create?
efficiencies
but not necessarily remove the need for people but
That's my initial meetings that I've been involved in in terms of AI.
We need to wait and see what the 100 licenced pilot review tells us.

7 Future Resourcing Readiness

Just briefly, it's good that you touched on entry level jobs because, you know, colleagues
Councillor Joe Thompson (Calderdale Council) - 1:45:28
I'm aware of and it's less relevant to the Restructural Combiner for it, that's what's
going, particularly in programming as a key area.
It's just going.
And again, when we're looking at skills and potentially moving
16 to 18, it's that element of we've
got a whole generation of young people
that is going to move into the most different workforce
we've potentially seen since the Industrial Revolution.
So it's good that we're thinking about it.
And obviously, we are at an early stage.
I appreciate that as well.
But council Ron treating cancer Smith
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:45:59
Thanks, thank you Joe
specific question
Andy Rontree - 1:46:05
How many and stuff stuff does the combined authority have at the moment?
I'm looking at your paragraph 5 .2
Talking about
and I'm just thinking about that.
I mean, clearly the direction of travel is more directly employed staff,
fewer consultants and pre -lancers there.
Do you have any points of comparison for this?
Are you sort of thinking about the combined authority of the government
perhaps the experience of Manchester or local authorities, civil service, do you have a
target in mind as all best practise models or is it just the direction of travel?
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:47:10
In short, we don't have that at the moment but that is, I was saying that this is almost
like earlier identification and the next stage is to then really, really do a much greater
deeper dive. Mass transit has been one area for us that our own learning has
showed us that we want to maintain a corporate memory, we want to make sure
that people who have been involved in some of the early stages of some of the
things that we're doing are retained in the organisation. So I think our own
learning has shown us that. But understanding, we do work really
closely I work very closely with
Manchester and West mid in particular because we're part of a PTF forum as well. We from a trade union bargaining perspective with put together so
We haven't done that piece work of a moment
But it's definitely something that we we can do and we'll I'll make a note of to make sure it goes as part of the project
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:48:10
Come back again. Thank you. Cheque may I ask about digital transformation? It's not supplementary as such but just
Thank you.
Andy Rontree - 1:48:16
Yeah, just sort of working down your document, Joe.
A mention of digital transformation there.
I'm wondering, and I'm guessing, and I
suppose hoping that your answer is actually it's a bit above,
but just thinking, is it partly more staff
and digital specialists and cross -staff upskilling as well
that as a part of people's job, we
would expect them to be more digitally enabled
to than previously?
Yeah, yes, in short, yes.
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:48:49
and I would say that that's one of the areas that we highlighted in here as a specific specific need because
I'm very conscious that that's also very competitive market
probably one of the key areas of growth growth for us as well as
Needing to enhance and grow the talent in the organisation
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:49:08
Thank you, right, okay, so Smith think answer Edward
Thanks
Oh, that's noisy, isn't it?
Cllr Richard Smith - 1:49:13
So I just want to pick up the point about AI again.
I think it's inevitable that we will see masses of change
in the next 10 or 15 years.
And I think that what we need to do,
and I think this is probably almost a suspect
sounds a bit blunt, but it's not meant to.
I think we've got to see it as an opportunity and not
a threat.
I don't think there's anything we can do about it.
I've got a son who's 16 in a few weeks and I need to sort of guide him through the world
of work and all these opportunities and things that he may not want to look at because potentially
they may not exist.
My professional background is in medical imaging and the masses of change that I've seen in
last five years and are coming through as we speak. It's mind blowing what can be done
by AI now. So I think what I'm trying to say is I believe our role, my role, your role,
probably your role rather than our role if I'm honest, I think the way to tackle this
is to know that this is coming, see it as a positive and yes there will be people that
need support through, probably through career changes,
redirection and that type of thing.
But actually, this body probably could look at,
you know, refocusing in some areas
as opposed to seeing AI as a threat.
We've been through lots of change over the last 200 years
as a society, as a country, as a world.
and it's going to keep on happening.
There's nothing we can do to stop technology advancing.
The great thing about the human being
is our innovative approach to these things
and how that's why we have AI because clever people have
decided that that can work.
So I think really what I'm trying to say
is there's a lot of opportunities in AI,
and I'm not for a minute suggesting that we just
abandon people in roles or anything like that. But I think that we can see this as an opportunity
to just pivot slightly in certain areas and you know I've been through loads of change
programmes in my career and you know we haven't mass thrown people out of organisations I've
been involved with. They've moved into slightly different roles and yes the world of work
will look different but we're not gonna be able to change that so I hope that makes sense.
Thank you councillor Smith it absolutely does and I think you're absolutely right it's a
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:52:20
it's a really big learning area for us all to be honest and resilience is a really big key part of
strategy going forward as well because the more the more we move into the
digital space the more we've got to learn about how resilient we can be with
that too and the risks that go with that so we are planning that at the same time
and making sure we plan that. I think that you're absolutely right seeing it
as an opportunity where we possibly can rather than a threat is definitely and
my key thing here is apart but that's what the these two papers were about
It's just trying to think ahead because the more we can do that the more we can bring our people with us
In terms of being able to share that and seeing it a bit more as it's just enriching their jobs a bit more
It's about actually enlarging their their skills their capabilities and they're making sure there's enough time to get through that
and
And and for people who don't want to do that then
That's fine, too
And we need to make sure that we can there's safe space for them to say it's not for me
All of that will be part of a much more detailed plan in terms of, and the digital development
and the future technology strategy is my responsibility along with resourcing and people because they
just go hand in hand, people processing systems.
So we are looking at it wherever we can.
The organisation has changed significantly in the last few years and the amount of people
and it has doubled for example and the challenges that we've got so now is a
really good time to make sure we actually just review all of those things
ourselves and that's what we're doing. I'm sure I'm sure we'll be sharing
different elements of that with the scrutiny committee as we develop that.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 1:54:09
You want a supplementary? Right, we've got Councillor Edwards and Councillor Merritt.
Matt Edwards - 1:54:20
Yes, thanks Joe. My question, you sort of answered one part of that already actually
with the relation to mass transit and how retaining skills was a big priority because
I think we know looking at the infrastructure projects in the UK, it's one of the key,
the fact that sometimes skill retention isn't kept within the public sector is actually
one of the reasons why projects are so expensive and obviously if we're planning on rolling
out more mass transit, we need that.
We need to retain the skills.
So I was just wondering to expand a bit more on that, where this sits, where this work
sits in terms of the wider adult skills work that Wicca does, because if you're identifying
skills gaps, is that something Wicca could start commissioning training on to try and
plug some of those?
So I know that happens with bus drivers, which is great, but is that going to happen with
some of the more technical stuff, which is probably,
because like a bus driver could then quite easily go
and become a HDB driver, which is what within the rights.
But if we're looking at some of the really technical stuff
within government and local government,
that's less transferable and that's stuff
that we do really desperately need.
It's skills shortages in specific fields,
like planning, for example, is quite well known.
So I was just wondering where it sits.
It's a very, very good point and one that's not lost.
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:55:41
So making, so our socioeconomic strategy in terms of, in terms of the wider workforce
in, in, in West Yorkshire and what we promote and encourage other, other employees to do
is something that will also sit alongside this
as we develop that.
Fair Work Charter, all of those kind of things
are things that we'll apply to ourselves as we do this.
I think that it's also something that we are
very, very conscious of, making sure that we reflect
where possible in the work that we're doing.
Because we're quite enough what we're doing is through a system
It's
It's not the actual doing and give you like in terms that still comes through the system
It is it is going to be about how we learn how to
How to contract that better and how to procure that better and how to so very conscious of it
Haven't got a plan I could share with you on that right now
It wasn't so much the actual where is it planned, it was what you plan on doing.
It's something that we absolutely are very conscious of and something that I'm very passionate about making sure that we actually try and, not try, that we write into our plans.
Matt Edwards - 1:57:18
Why could commissions people, commissions like for example Realised Training, were based
in my ward, they did a lot of work with the school, they were trying to plug some of the
skills shortage, which are really important skills shortage on bus drivers.
But I'm just thinking also sometimes more in terms of some of the higher skilled jobs,
So we're not just
I suppose we're opening a wide range of opportunity and it sort of ties in to the current point council
Thompson was making in terms of giving young people an option to get a really high skilled job, which is really valuable for them
I'm not gonna expect in response to that, but I think that's just really
Got to be something that we're up in the ambition with with what we're doing with training to
also ultimately help Wicar and local authorities deliver and
our plans.
Absolutely.
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:58:08
And I just keep agreeing with you, but it's, I think what my role here to do is to turn
it into something a bit more formal.
And we're still at that really, and again, that early identification stage.
But I've been and sat with Bradford University and been invited to the Year 3 graduate presentation
on the digital, at the end of their digital course,
to actually look at how can we involve some of our young people
in how they might have a career here and promote how they,
you know, we would be a great place for them to come and work
so that we can attract some of those skills and connect it
to young people who are in West Yorkshire.
So we are doing it, but I want to do it in a bit more
of an organised and proactive fashion.
Yes, I just wanted to understand the sort of parallel side
of all the internal changes in terms
of how we're engaging the existing workforce, you know,
staff reps, trade unions, and so on.
We
Have
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:59:25
That's a question more for the for the for the staff reps than for me
But I think I believe we have a really strong relationship with our staff reps right through to here at the combined authority
Nearly everything we have we obviously track any decisions that we're making and any changes in the organisation and document that
and our
and our documentation on everything we do,
requests a conversation to be signed off by the trade union
before it goes through.
So we work and meet with them on a daily stroke,
a very, very, very close relationship with them,
and get them to have a voice in pretty much everything we do.
Cllr David Nunns - 2:00:24
I just like to touch on the on the skills basis if I can that's been obviously discussed
both with Councillor Smith and Councillor Edwards. We have in this country an ageing
workforce that's in our major industries and I'm looking at construction, I've been in
construction all my life and now our future growth particularly in this area, particularly
in housing and all the associated areas.
In the construction industry, the average age force
is between 40 and 60.
We are going to have a massive, massive drop off
in the next 10 years of people retiring.
There's nobody coming through for that.
Is our strategy there to start to look at the skills gap with our local employers, with the industry within our area,
and that's integration with the combined authority and the skills and training.
Yes, we're doing a lot of skills and training, there is AI coming through, there is going to be a lot of changing in the workforce skills.
But we still have a lot of basic skills in this country, a lot of basic skills in this area that are not being fulfilled.
because we can't get the skills and the people, we can't bring the apprentices through, we can't bring the workforce through from the young people through
and give them a good career in our major industries and those major industries are what actually are putting the finance, the profit into this country
That's where the growth is starting. This is what this this country needs growth. It wants its industry to grow
so I'd like to know that interrelationship between
the combined authority the training and the
link with industry
Thank you
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 2:02:38
Do you want me to try very yeah, because I think that is a major issue that is
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 2:02:40
in a major feature the local growth plan
and we talked about skills earlier on, but a lot of the work that in Felix's area, our Director of Inclusive Economy Growth and Cultural Skills,
is looking at is around, as part of our growth plans, is not just what is the infrastructure that we're building around bus transit and transit,
but how are we, and we talked about inclusive growth earlier, how are we making sure that residents and young people,
and even adults who might need to retrain within the region are able to
Sarah Eaton, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 2:03:19
take up those opportunities so that is a big piece of work I think that it's
separate to kind of the work that Joe is working on but but it is interlinked
because we know that some of the big skills the big industry that's coming
forward potentially for mass transit will rely on some of those skills
coming through the pipelines it's hugely important and it might be something that
We could talk about in a lot greater detail as part of that work on the local growth plan,
but that is one of the big priorities in the local growth plan is around how are we making
sure we have got a workforce equipped for the future essentially.
Because we do know, as you've said, that in some areas we are behind where we need to
be nationally and we need to do something about that.
So some of the skills budget that we talked about earlier is around looking at where those
gaps are and how we address those gaps and we make sure that whilst we're talking about
growth areas we've got a pipeline of talent that could come forward and be able to kind
of support our businesses because what we don't want is our businesses to leave because
they've not got access to the right level of skills and ability locally. So that is
a usually important part of the local growth plan, that element.
Cllr David Nunns - 2:04:32
We are finding that in our industry, in our area where
industries are moving out to find areas of skills and that is true in the
Bradford area. There are companies that are relocating and I think there's a lot of
basic skills in our basic industries that haven't changed for many many years.
We have had, you know, we've got computerised machinery.
We have got a lot of computerised systems and AI
coming up.
But there's still that basic need.
When you talk about mass transit,
there's still the civil engineers needed.
There's still the civils people needed.
There's still the construction people to put that into place.
It's all right doing it strategically.
We'll have this mass transport.
Fantastic.
But I only have, I visit a site in Leeds in Hunsley.
We've got 450 men on one site and that's just one construction site.
How many people are we going to need, is the civil engineering industry going to need to put this mass transit through?
That's what will stop us, that will stop our progress if we cannot put those skills into the basic industries that we need and we call upon to actually enhance our area.
and it's just it's a very basic call I'm afraid. Thank you.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 2:05:55
Councillor Rose assures me she's only got a small point to make.
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 2:06:04
I just want to support everything that Councillor David Nunn just said.
Some years ago here in Wycka we had a presentation about career development
and we had two very nice young ladies come along and one of their major concerns was
the difficulty in getting into schools to catch the young people maybe at 16 years of
age to get them into a trade. I don't see that we've got a robot yet that can be a plasterer
or a plumber but it might come around David, I have no doubt about it.
You have indeed, you have indeed.
And I totally support that concept of the manual, the value of a manual workforce and
the experience that they have got.
But coming back to your report, two things.
I am really pleased to see that, and you have expressed it in terms of talent pipelines.
But Jo, you mentioned universities.
I think you need to be getting into schools earlier to capture the 16 year olds and maybe
some of those that are in need to get them into a skill that might give them a trade
for the future.
So I hope that's part of it as well.
And in the report here, Chair, on the Transport Director, and it comes down to issues, workforce
planning.
Well, workforce planning is something that goes on all the time, I'm hoping.
But in this particular one, examples as given of contract management, that's procurement.
and revenue modelling and customer relations management. I would have thought already that
we have the basis of that happening within WICA that you just need to upskill into that
from existing staff or indeed find out why that's not as forward thinking as we would
want you to do. But on the rest of the report I think you've identified really what's needed
for the future of the specialist skills.
So thank you for that, Joe.
Thank you.
That's really lovely feedback.
Thank you.
And those particular roles that you
Jo Dent (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 2:08:12
meant, it's around expansion of and specialism in mass transit
or in transport.
And you're right, some of that will be about development,
and some of it will be about bringing in new people
at the same time as many other people are trying to find them
too.
So we do need to really focus and work with very close
with Felix in terms of how we actually source that from our region.
Cllr Hannah Bithell - 2:08:44
As all meetings should go, me getting the last word, Chair. Thank you. I just wanted
to come in on the school point. I am a teacher, or I was until relatively recently, and actually
Even 16 is too late.
But the real issue isn't that people
don't want to be in trades.
It's that previous governments have not valued trades,
and therefore schools weren't able to get
the same number of points in order
to be classed as good schools from vocational stuff
as they were from academic.
And therefore, until we change that nationally,
we won't get people doing the vocational courses, which
we need because schools need bums on seats to get money in order to pay for the education
for everyone. So it's kind of one of those circles isn't it? And it's whether or not
there's anything we can do to lobby around that as a combined authority now that this
has kind of been highlighted for us.
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 2:09:43
The Mayor can use her soft power. She can go down and raise that very issue. So I think
We know that one. So
Do you want to say something final Joe?
Thank you
So, thank you so much to meet you all I think it's a really fair point I
And something that I'm sure college. I'll make a note of I wish I could change that myself
But it's not gonna be something I think in my with my gift, but thank you
We've raised a number of issues today and we'll be progressing them through
various work groups that we've got but as Joe said this was an initial report
which we felt was important to bring this now because there's a lot of
comment you've been talking about planning and planning in particular
there is a fear in local government that we're going to lose our best planners to
the Cobain Authority because that mean that was basically what happened in
reverse from the regional spatial strategy.
A lot of these people came back into local government and some
of them left to go into it.
So we have been there before in local government.
So that's not a good thing.
Waiqah got to do what's best for Waiqah.
But there is a fear in local government
that we will lose some of our better people
because the package might be more attractive to them
because you're less constrained.
And that's the fear.
I don't think anybody's against people
getting better for themselves,
but that's what our fear,
we're sitting here with our counsellor hats on,
thinking, yeah, we might lose some of our best people.
And that's a concern,
but that's not something that you've got any responsibility
for, you've got to drive the best things forward.
So that said, thank you both for coming along here
today you've given us a good food for thought.
Khalid will be getting back in touch to get follow up
so that we can get whether it's a in -person meeting like this
or whether we just ask you to send us through a brief update.
I don't think yesterday at the combined authority
you were given any dates to come back with anything more
formal and follow up to it.
So we might put some of those in for you.
the combined authority yesterday
when you needed to come back but
I do think it's important that
we get regular updates and keep
a watching eye on what is going
to happen. Thank you very much.
So the final item on the agenda
is our agenda for the next
meeting and we have agreed that
we will invite the Mayor to come

8 Next Steps and Workplan

along and we have a number of
specialist questions that we

9 Meeting dates

will ask her. If anybody has
anything further they would like
to add to that we can do that
that list but transport being the main one in terms of moving things forward.
Is there anything else that we picked up as a major item for the mayor to answer?
The mayor's response to the... she responded to us we're now going to respond to her in
terms of the responses she sent. A little bit of ping pong going back and forth.
Here's a minute.
I just wondered whether given the earlier discussion we should also pick up on the
social cohesion yeah issues yeah that's the ones you can do about it yeah yeah
this was in relation to the merge response I think one of the points that
we discussed earlier on in the pre meeting was her response to question two
it was something I brought up at the meeting at when she came and at the May
meeting and there's an inconsistency with her engagement with councillors
across West Yorkshire so in Leeds we talked about how there's a one -hour
question time where members are all members are equally as entitled to put
forward questions and that my understanding is that at least all the
local authorities have a similar kind of set up and the outlier being Bradford
and when she was challenged on that she said she comes to the executive and she
goes to Labour group and so what that told me is residents in Tong have less
representation with the mayor then as a non -labour councillor then a councillor in
any other one of the constituent areas and I don't think that's good enough so
Andy Rontree - 2:14:17
I think the mayor needs to really expand on number two and what she's going to do
differently to ensure Bradford residents get equal opportunity to be able to have
their representatives ask questions on their behalf.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 2:14:26
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 2:14:28
Yeah, Sarah, can you be sure that's fed back when you talk to Ben and to the mayor so thank you very much
Thanks for your summary. Yes, the work plan on the
Agenda, can I request that next time we see the work plan?
Cllr Harry McCarthy - 2:14:45
We have a plan that is a forward plan and not actually a backward plan. There's most of
most of that document is
Okay, thank you very much. Thank you for your time
Cllr Barry Anderson (WYCA Scrutiny Chair) - 2:14:55
.