Scrutiny Committee - Friday 18 July 2025, 11:00am - West Yorkshire Combined Authority Webcasting

Scrutiny Committee
Friday, 18th July 2025 at 11:00am 

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  1. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
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  1. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  3. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
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  1. Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
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  1. Cllr Richard Smith
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  3. Paul Godwin
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  1. Cllr Bob Felstead
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  3. Councillor Peter Hunt (Calderdale Council)
  4. Councillor Joe Thompson (Calderdale Council)
  5. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  6. Cllr Richard Smith
  7. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  8. Cllr Bob Felstead
  9. Cllr Ralph Berry
  10. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
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  1. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  3. Webcast Finished

1 Apologies for Absence

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:00:00
Okay, right, so welcome to the first scrutiny committee of the new WICA year.
So let's go through apologies for absence.
Apologies have been seen from Councillor Matt Edwards and Councillor Anna Watson also unavailable.
Councillor Andrew Marchington with Councillor John Lawson substituting and Councillor David
Merritt.

2 Declaration of Disclosable Pecuniary Interests

Any declarations of disclosure of pecuniary interest?

3 Possible Exclusion of the Press and Public

Nope, there were none.
There's no exclusions of the press or public.

4 Chair's Comments

Can I just ask a quick question?
The people who have substitutes, I mean, like, now they're able to say a substitute,
I don't know why the substitute couldn't come out.
She gave her apologies as well, didn't she?
Yes.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:00:58
I mean it's more difficult if you award this from the smaller groups because
there is if you take leads as an example although each of them will have a deputy
of their own they can always ask the other deputy to step in for them from
the same party and that's part of the problem is that you need to have someone
from the same authority.
So in my case, if I can't make it,
I can't ask a conservative from Bradford or anybody else
to substitute for me.
It's got to be Leeds.
And there's not a lot of us, so.
Unlimited.
So that's the problem.
It's the cohort that's available is the problem.
But she was asked, and she wasn't able to come along
as well.
Yeah, it's just that that's one of the things that
is more difficult to get.
Hence the reason that people begin upset with people being chased up
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:01:57
Right, so in terms of the
my opening remarks last year, we had a very very busy year and
You'll see later on when we approve
Report what we've been able to do. We did try a new approach and
and as we know from discussions that we've been having ongoing that it's not
been a perfect approach but hopefully we're learning and hopefully we're
modifying it as we go along. We've learned a number of lessons and we will
now move forward with those. In terms of the new year we've got a new way of
working we're going to start prioritising our work a lot more so that
it fits in with what's being planned. What we need to do is we need to continue
to challenge the mayor, the chief executive, the officers and the chairs.
That should be our role is to give them constructive challenge. We are their
critical friends and they've got to remember that what we're saying to them
we might be criticising them but we're doing it for good reasons. Equally if
they're doing a good job we will also reflect that in our comments as well. Yes?
The mayor said we're a bit soft on her and I asked a somewhat challenging question.
She took it very badly I thought.
I don't know what that's supposed to mean.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:03:23
I will reflect that back to the mayor I can assure you.
So this year I think we need to cut this there's a lot to concentrate on but the issues that
definitely coming forward. Our devolution, the government produced the first
devo bill. Personally I think there'll be another devo bill will come along to
refine some of the other things. Transport, the challenges of transport in general
but of bus franchising and mass transit, it's something needs to be looked at.
Skills and jobs, how we deliver growth for West Yorkshire is something I think
we've got to look forward to.
Governance, we need to look at the way we are governed
ourselves as a WACA combined authority.
We need to look to see whether or not
we are actually fit for 2025, 2026,
because the governance structure we've got just now
was set a number of years ago.
And I think there's probably general acceptance
that it's not currently fit for purpose and it needs to be looked at so I think
we need to have a look at that. Performance measurement have we got
enough are we doing it in the right place are we got the right statistics so
that when someone is making a decision they're using data to actually drive
things forward rather than just making it out as a gut instinct. Budgets are not
going to get any easier at the moment. The government's priority for good or
for bad is to prioritise capital expenditure and the revenue side of
things is the more challenging side of staff, how that's going to be delivered.
So we need to keep an eye on the revenue costs because as we've said in order to
attract good quality staff we may have to end up paying more to attract some of
and that obviously hits the revenue budget harder,
it tells you what you're getting.
And the other thing we need to look at
is the mayoral pledges.
The mayor was elected on various pledges
and it is our job to ensure that things are fine.
Now just to give you just a brief update,
the Combined Authority meeting on the 24th of July
is going to be looking at a number of items.
One item is the travel to school consultation outputs.
So if you're interested to see what the outputs are, I would suggest that you get a copy of
that paper that's coming for approval so you can see what's been done and what's being
suggested.
Then there's also one headed up, the West Yorkshire Spatial Development Strategy.
You may say to yourself, what's that?
Well because we as local authorities are all going through different forms of our reviewing
our local plan there is not a lot of time in order to get local plans altered
be done at the same time so West Yorkshire are developing a strategy for
mass transit so they can look and see what general direction that's going to
be physical direction as to whose gardens it's going to be going through
so we've got an idea and that need that will need to be approved as far as I know
by every council and some councils will have to take it to the full council
meeting depending on the governance structures that they operate some will
be the exec board will have the authority to do it in others you'll need
to go to the the full council to be approved so there's a paper on that
there's a paper on wanting West Yorkshire to become the region of
learning and creativity so again if that's something you're interested in
There's a paper on that.
There is also a paper on business growth as well.
There is also a brief update on the devolution side of things.
Basically it's hopeful that everything will start from January 2026 moving forward.
And the funding release in terms of integrated settlement should be with us by April 2026.
And the final Royal ascent should be in spring summer 2026.
So we need to start preprogramming from January 2026 onwards, making sure that we're fit and
ready to hit the ground sprinting, not just running sprinting.
And then the final item is an update on bus franchising.
Those of you who attended the working group will have some idea as to the issues that
They're going to have to look into in terms of where the bus
deck was are going to be.
There was questions asked about if any of them got asbestos
in them, what the costs are going to be of remediation
in order to make ourselves fit for purpose.
And in Wakefield, where is the bus station going to be?
As fundamental as that because of the problems
that they've got.
So that's basically my introductory remarks.
So if we can go on to item five, governance arrangements.
So, college, can I hand over to you for this, please?

5 Governance Arrangements

The paper just asks that the committee notes the governance arrangements, terms of reference,
standing orders, quorum rules, substitute arrangements and meeting dates established
at the combiner for a annual meeting and to reappoint the incumbent vice chairs.
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:08:54
So that...
Councillors Matt Edwards and Richard Smith.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:08:59
So, and that's it.
We don't have to, we just note that one, don't we?
Just noticing that one.

6 Minutes of the 2 May 2025 meeting

So, the next one is the minutes of the meeting on the 2nd of May.
Are we happy with those minutes as a true reflection?
Those that can remember back to the 2nd of May.
And even if you were present, that's the other thing

7 Recommendations

So we'll take it as read so they're approved right item seven
recommendations as a result
Of our last meeting we had we invited the mayor to come along and talk to us
And as a result of that we've come up with a set of recommendations
which are on page 33 and
And there is one
Slight change to recommendation six
We're taking out the word quantitative and just leaving it
As without the word quantitative in are we all happy?
with that
Yep, good
Sorry, yeah, I thought we had said that oh
Yes, sorry, we were talking about quality as well.
Cllr Richard Smith - 0:10:23
I'm happy with that, sorry, thank you.
Okay, so Rontree.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:10:27
Are we going to cut to recommendation 26?
That's later on.
That's a different item.
Yeah.
Paul Godwin - 0:10:43
Yes, as a scientist, I do object to the removal of the word quantitative
because if you ever can't count it it probably hasn't happened and I do think
we should look into some objective ways of measuring what we're trying to look
at because otherwise how do we know if it's changed I mean if we just say well
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:11:07
they've done a great job in what sense? I personally am relaxed about keeping the word quantitative in but in the pre -meeting
No, I believe in being consensual, so I tried to make sure everybody would agree.
No, no, I wasn't agreed then. I'm just saying I think we ought to look at some substitute
to know exactly what we mean by measuring an evaluation of the morality if we haven't got any measures.
The idea of ad -rocking quantitative was to expand it, not to restrict it.
Yeah, that's okay.
So if you feel that you have to say quantitative and qualitative...
No, I don't. I just say would just say I would like in the future to know how that's going to be achieved.
So I'm not addicted to it, but I just feel that there ought to be some measure that we know is a measure rather than just some general statement.

8 Annual Report 2024/25

right here we go right so right the next item is item eight our annual report are
we anybody get any comments you'd like to make on the annual report happy to
approve the annual report where does actually go now the annual report this
website this meeting I will come to the September meeting okay okay right item

9 Work Programme 2025/26

nine sorry yeah
Cllr Bob Felstead - 0:13:08
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:13:11
I think that would be a good recommendation.
It fits in with what we've given to the mayor as to how to communicate.
So yes, I think we should send a copy to leadership in each council and ask them to bring it to the attention of the appropriate committees and the appropriate councillors.
Yes, Councillor Thompson.
Councillor Peter Hunt (Calderdale Council) - 0:13:37
Councillor Joe Thompson (Calderdale Council) - 0:13:39
Just on that, one of the changes we made in Coldertale, we're now second year of having an overview and scrutiny committee and when we've changed the terms of reference, we've updated them so it says we get a report from the members of West Yorkshire Screwittney, go back and report to that committee.
so that's also a mechanism people might want to look at as well.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:13:51
Councillor Smith?
Cllr Richard Smith - 0:13:55
Really minor points where it's talking about membership and you've got the constituent
councils on the left hand side. The Leeds box needs to go up a couple of notches
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:14:05
because it's looking like a couple of these lines are related to Kirklees when it's not.
Councillor Haig and Councillor Jenkins were given a free transfer to Kirklees by the...
and the other two substitutes.
We've got enough, we've got 69, we don't need any more,
thank you.
So we just need to look at the general layout, yes.
I think Jerry's worthy of a comment
from all of us around the table,
because too often the role of home being the scrutiny
is just a headline, and the report actually identifies here
how much work was taking place in the student.
And I believe as well, it is very important at this point
That recognition is made and even more so an attitude of the work that Callum and Katie do on behalf of this committee.
Tremendous amount of work, tremendous amount of information to be gathered for us.
So I think we should commend our offices as well, Chair.
Yeah, I think that's fine. I totally agree with that. We'll record it in the minutes accordingly.
And I think what we proved last year is that the soft power we have in terms of the conversations
that we had, we shaped, for example, on the climate change.
Although we weren't formally part of it, we were welcomed in by them and we shaped that
for those of us who attended the strategy and we moved it forward.
And I think we got a better job out of it.
And certainly on the transport side of things, Councillor Edward was able to get by using
soft power a number of changes done.
Yes, Councillor Perry.
I think we've shown some potentially more innovative ways of influencing and getting
involved rather than just a full committee setting.
Cllr Bob Felstead - 0:15:54
I found some of the work that we did in terms of engaging with the transport consultation
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:15:59
and the groups on co -production, things like that, were very helpful.
and then that's a piece of work that's done.
It doesn't run forever.
You've been there, you've done it, you have an outcome,
you move on to the next thing.
But in terms of what we're looking ahead,
you know, on my third year now,
and I actually just about feel I'm getting moving on this
because it's just a different beast.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:16:23
So that's been approved with those additional amendments
made to it.
Right, item nine, the work programme,
that's on pages 49 to 68 right so we've had a look through this and with there
are a number of changes that we're now going to meet this is a result of
conversations that have been held offline so can someone remind me of what
we are changing in terms of what we're doing
right so we are removing 26 which was all topics feel it falling under another
committee remit we are removing that we are know what we are going to now have
an input into what's happening in other committees so that we're not restricted in what we're
doing. So we have now agreed that we will on occasions cheque with the committees to
make sure that they agree with the general direction that we're going in. Any other changes
that were proposed? Review in six months.
And we'll review these in six months to make sure they're being fit for purpose and take
what's happening that's it right so is everybody happy now to approve the work
programme and what it is and we're also going to look at potentially cancelling
the March meeting because of the important elections that are coming up
and we need to be nice that people are probably going to be a bit distracted by
then so we're gonna have a look at the effectiveness of that okay so we've

10 Meeting dates

approved that and then we're on to the next the next meeting is the 22nd of
August which will be a briefing now in terms of what's going to be in this
briefing if you look through some of the papers that were given to you that I
went because we were just working on them we are going to look at the
devolution bill, the integrated settlement and mass transit, the preferred route. So
we'll get a briefing, an update on where the devolution debate is. We'll also then get
an update on how the integrated settlement is going to affect. In case if you weren't
aware that West Yorkshire has now been recognised for the quality that it is and will now be
able to get an integrated settlement which will help for financial planning, it will
We have a lot more flexibilities and decisions being made as to where the money can be spent,
not just necessarily on the budget head it's been given.
The mayor will have more authority to put it where it absolutely will get the best bang
for his buck, is probably the best way of describing it.
And it also means that some of the areas that might not have been prioritised nationally,
we can prioritise them because we feel it is vitally important. For example
Councillor Berry is very very insistent that we've got to do something about getting
young people to using public transport, going from A to B more and it's seen as
the first choice route. Well, fair walk but some things aren't always nearby so
you've got to use some sort of variance. So that's the sort of work behind the
that we're doing that we can try and get some prioritisation done on that and the
number of other things so for happy we can approve that
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:20:30
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:20:34
so apart from that anybody any other anything else they would like to raise
in the meeting if not then I'm sorry for any members of the public who are
looking anything that was a short meeting and this was the first meeting
of the year and the most meetings tend to be very short the first one because
we're basically just checking that we're here and that we know what we're going
to be doing and we can now get down to the hard work of getting down to the
detail of our work plan which will be getting published in the public domain
as soon as we've got it agreed and then also enables other people to get involved.
One thing we will have to do this year is try and work better with our local authority
partners.
There was a local government association report was issued at the local government association
conference where it was headed up how to work better with your local authority from a combined
authority point of view. I contributed to that as did Ben Still as the chief
executive, amongst a whole raft of others. I only had a line at the end of the day.
I'm not claiming it was me that was behind it. But it was cross party, it was done through the
LGA peers carried it out. So it was an excellent report. So again if you've
nothing else to read amongst the myriad of other kinds of documentation you read.
That is a document worth looking at. So with that said, thank you very much for
your attendance and have a good weekend.