Scrutiny Committee - Friday 2 May 2025, 10:30am - West Yorkshire Combined Authority Webcasting

Scrutiny Committee
Friday, 2nd May 2025 at 10:30am 

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  1. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
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  1. Ms. Katie Wright, Scrutiny Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  2. Ms. Katie Wright, Scrutiny Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  3. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  4. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
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  1. Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
  2. Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
  3. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  4. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
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  1. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  2. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  3. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  4. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  5. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  6. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  7. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  8. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  9. Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  10. Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  11. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  12. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  13. Kate Haigh
  14. Kate Haigh
  15. Kate Haigh
  16. Kate Haigh
  17. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  18. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  19. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  20. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  21. Geraldine Carter
  22. Geraldine Carter
  23. Cllr Ralph Berry
  24. Cllr Ralph Berry
  25. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  26. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  27. Andrew Marchington
  28. Andrew Marchington
  29. Andy Rontree
  30. Andy Rontree
  31. Andy Rontree
  32. Andy Rontree
  33. Jane Ryiah
  34. Jane Ryiah
  35. Jane Ryiah
  36. Jane Ryiah
  37. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  38. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  39. Geraldine Carter
  40. Geraldine Carter
  41. Cllr Ralph Berry
  42. Cllr Ralph Berry
  43. Kate Haigh
  44. Kate Haigh
  45. Cllr Ralph Berry
  46. Cllr Ralph Berry
  47. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  48. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  49. Cllr Ralph Berry
  50. Cllr Ralph Berry
  51. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  52. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  53. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  54. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  55. Matt Edwards
  56. Matt Edwards
  57. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  58. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  59. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  60. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  61. Cllr Dave Merrett
  62. Cllr Dave Merrett
  63. Jane Ryiah
  64. Jane Ryiah
  65. Jane Ryiah
  66. Jane Ryiah
  67. Kate Haigh
  68. Kate Haigh
  69. Cllr Ralph Berry
  70. Cllr Ralph Berry
  71. Cllr Ralph Berry
  72. Cllr Ralph Berry
  73. Cllr Ralph Berry
  74. Cllr Ralph Berry
  75. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  76. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  77. Cllr Ralph Berry
  78. Cllr Ralph Berry
  79. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  80. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  81. Cllr Ralph Berry
  82. Cllr Ralph Berry
  83. Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  84. Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  85. Cllr Ralph Berry
  86. Cllr Ralph Berry
  87. Cllr Ralph Berry
  88. Cllr Ralph Berry
  89. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  90. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  91. Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  92. Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  93. Cllr Ralph Berry
  94. Cllr Ralph Berry
  95. Cllr Ralph Berry
  96. Cllr Ralph Berry
  97. Cllr Ralph Berry
  98. Cllr Ralph Berry
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  1. Cllr Ralph Berry
  2. Cllr Ralph Berry
  3. Geraldine Carter
  4. Geraldine Carter
  5. Cllr Ralph Berry
  6. Cllr Ralph Berry
  7. Cllr Ralph Berry
  8. Cllr Ralph Berry
  9. Cllr Ralph Berry
  10. Cllr Ralph Berry
  11. Geraldine Carter
  12. Geraldine Carter
  13. Cllr Ralph Berry
  14. Cllr Ralph Berry
  15. Cllr Ralph Berry
  16. Cllr Ralph Berry
  17. Matt Edwards
  18. Matt Edwards
  19. Andy Rontree
  20. Andy Rontree
  21. Geraldine Carter
  22. Geraldine Carter
  23. Andrew Marchington
  24. Andrew Marchington
  25. Webcast Finished

I will welcome everybody more formally in a minute.
Apologies for absence.
Who have we got apologies from today?
I've had apologies from Councillor David Jenkins, Jane Dawson,
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:00:17
Councillor Lola Fransma and Councillor John Bowden, also not available.

1 Apologies for Absence

I've had apologies from Councillor Harry McCarthy, with Councillor Jane Rylock,
Ms. Katie Wright, Scrutiny Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:00:26
for shooting and then apologies from Councillor Betty Rose, with Councillor Deb Nichols
and Councillor Julie Haig, also not available.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:00:32
And Councillor Timbrough, are you back? I'll be open for one meeting.
Are you the actually permanent appointee now?
I'll be for this meeting.
for this meeting.
Well, welcome anyway.
Welcome anyway.
Right, so anybody get any declarations
of disclosable pecuniary interests?
Nope.

2 Declaration of Disclosable Pecuniary Interests

There is no possible exclusion of the press in public.

3 Possible Exclusion of the Press and Public

Everything we've got is in public.
The minutes of the meeting on the 21st of March,

4 Minutes of the meeting held on 21 March 2025

are they a true and accurate record?
Yeah.
Anybody get any issues that we want to raise from them?
And it has not been covered, Professor Merrick.
Yes, I just wanted to ask on minute six, page five,
there were a couple of things that were listed
in that minute in terms of issues we wanted to pursue.
I just wondered what's happening on those.
Thank you.
You want, you got that, yeah.
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:01:36
Two of them were done in the pre -meeting with the Brownfield Housing Fund and the working
groups updates. I can send you more information and the others are in hand. I can send updates
as and when. The first bullet point about key decisions, Councillor Anderson has a regular
meeting with the Director of Strategy and he can cover it then and get back to you.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:02:07
the substantive part of today's agenda which we have got Mayor Brabant before us today
and also Ben Still and we have got the heading devolution and the role of the mayor. Well
probably the role of the mayor. A lot of people have said can we get an idea as to the
Successes that she's actually had which we've spoken about and just come prepared to tell you all the successes
Know that all the things have improved as a result of the mayor being in place and in terms of the devolution
We did have as I said earlier. We did have a meeting this week and

5 Devolution and the role of the Mayor

As far as that one's concerned what I'm being told publicly is it's there's still time it will be
September, October, when we might get more information, unless of course the Mayor is
going to tell us confidentially what she knows, but we'll soon find out. But do you want to
make some brief opening remarks?
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:03:14
Thank you so much, Chair. It's always a pleasure to be here. And also, as we've discussed over
the last year or so, I really value this committee. That's why we made the case for committee
members to be remunerated, to reflect their commitment
to reading papers, and giving these meetings
a deep thought, preparing questions,
and to be prepared to be rigorous.
I might not know everything, but as someone
that has nothing to hide, I'm here
to share my knowledge with you.
And if there's anything that I don't know, I'll hand to Ben
or we can prepare papers to deliver back to the committee.
It's been quite a morning.
There's been lots of discussions about mayors on the airwaves,
about their new elected mayors.
And there are obviously going to be more political hues
of mayors across the country.
But you will have seen that this government's commitment
to devolution by default is underway and powering away
at steam, at pace rather, because now we have all of the north is devolved. Not
all of the north has a mayor, but all of the north now is devolved and there are
mayors coming down the track in the south and across the country and I think
this suggests as well the success of mayoralities that at a time when people
feel very disconnected with politics and feel that everybody's all the same. It is
very pleasing to see that people when asked know their mayor, feel that their
mayor is doing a good job and also interesting that the deeper the
devolution and the greater the powers the more respected and valued the mayor
is and the more known the mayor is. So that is what I am hoping to deliver for
the people of West Yorkshire that in my first morality the ten manifesto
pledges that we've discussed in the past all of those commitments were delivered
and my commitment to bring buses back into public control is underway the
commitment to get space in the ground on the tram network that's going to be
transformational for our community is underway we're on time and on budget
with that we're making the case to government to give us the 1 billion
pounds in the spending review and we have all the MPs locally on side and
even the Chancellor came to the meeting in Parliament that we held with 24
members of Parliament and was very enthusiastically pointed to where the
tram would go through a constituency. She obviously doesn't make the case for that
because it is a conflict of interest. But I hope that this committee does value
what we've been able to deliver through devolution and just to reiterate that
De -volution has brought three billion pounds to our region.
And without a mayor, we wouldn't have had that.
There's lots we can, we will get into, I'm sure,
as the meeting continues.
But just fundamentally, thank you for your diligence
and commitment to scrutiny for our region.
Because this is what boosts democracy.
If people know that you are doing a great job,
they will feel that I have nothing to hide,
and that we are a collective that want the best
for the people of West Yorkshire.
Thank you.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:06:40
Right, what I'm going to do is I'm
going to go through the paper that we've got here by section.
And if we can try and keep to the sections.
If I feel that we're drifting into another section,
I will not.
I'll try and stop that particular question
and hold it back.
So the first one is paragraphs 3 .5 and 3 .6.
Anybody got any questions to the mayor?
Chancellor Haye.
Thank you.
And I think that this also talks about what the Minister said
about devolution as well.
I think I really welcome the devolution
that we've had in the region and we're
seeing across the country.
I do think that for too long, we've
had an over -centralized method of solving problems
in this country, which has probably
led to a lot of them not actually being solved.
So it's really good to see devolution,
being able to challenge those problems regionally.
When it comes to soft power, and I think there's something perhaps coming in the bill as well, which will
Will relate to that around accounting for how we spend public money across the region
I just wonder if you have any comments on what you would like to see in terms of
Whether it's a local public accounts committee or mayor actually use convener for some kind of scrutiny and oversight
bringing together of organisations that are spending public money to make sure that's
efficient and effective and actually meeting the missions that we have to achieve as an
authority.
Thank you, that's a really well thought out question, thanks very much.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:08:20
We as mayors have said when we were making the case about the single settlement, this
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:08:24
necessarily relates to soft power, but during the negotiations on the single settlement,
We said give us the freedoms and flexibilities and we are open to scrutiny.
If it's a public accounts committee, if it's a council of auditors,
however you want to do it, we would be very open to that public assurance.
Now here in West Yorkshire we have a really robust assurance process
of how money is spent across the region
and sometimes our local authority partners think it's too rigorous, but if we didn't
do it, the government would do it. So I think it's really important that we do account for
every penny that's spent. But when it comes to looking to the future, we are open to what
the government is proposing, how mayors, particularly with a single settlement, are going to be
accounted for. But Ben, I wonder, given your conversations with chief executives, what
what is the mood more widely across other mayors?
So I think it is as you've said Matt,
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:09:33
that with devolution must come the right checks and balances.
The devolution white paper talks about various models
of accountability, including kind of PACs in the regions,
as well as scrutiny functions, as well as the mayor's role
in talking to system authorities and public question
times as well and what we've tried to do is embrace that in spirit and do those things.
So Tracey goes out and talks to the public in the Chokel
Quality area annually, but more than once a year.
I forget how many times a year.
No, no, it's every three months.
Yeah, it's quite frequently.
So because we recognise how important that is.
Yeah, that's the Mayor's question time.
But of course, Message the Mayor is on the radio.
That's in a different item on the agenda, I think, Chair.
but to that point that we understand that this is a trade -off, that we want government to trust us,
we have to be trusted. We have already gone through what's called a gateway review,
which was about analyzing particular projects and their value for money and their impact.
That was a huge piece of work for our teams. What's been very
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:10:43
interesting that in the white
paper if you've gone through one gateway review, you don't have to do it again. So that has been
a real sort of test for us.
And Sarah Eaton and her team have really
put their shoulders to the wheel because the questioning was
so detailed and also trying to assess
the impact in the future.
It was a real piece of work that also helped us develop more
questions we need to ask of ourselves.
So it was a really good process, the Gateway Review.
But also it is reassuring that we won't have to do it again.
Kate Haigh - 0:11:23
I really welcome all that accountability over what I could do but I
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:11:29
Kate Haigh - 0:11:29
think I'd also like
to see that extended more across as said the public power being spent more widely so is
that something you see the combined authority or strategic authority will be able to do
to bring in bodies like the NHS perhaps and talk to them about working together to make
sure that we do get that value and accountability across the whole of the public expenditure
in the area.
Thank you for that. Obviously we have the finance and audit committee, we have independent
experts on committees who have that background. I'm not sure currently whether, as you know,
the NHS, NHS England in particular, is going through quite a rapid process of transition
that is causing a lot of concern. So I'm not sure whether that's necessarily the next step,
But just to the point about the NHS, we are collaborating with the ICB on a programme
of work given to us by government, which is the accelerator, the trailblazer, two pieces
of funding, £20 million to get people who are out of work well enough to get back into
work, and we've been given targets for that.
In a year, we have to get 1 ,300 people back into work and to also stop people falling
out of work and we've also been given a project that's the only one in the country called
Pathfinder in Wakefield around job centres. So we are working with the NHS and the ICB
on projects and that funding is one year. We will of course be auditing the outcomes.
We have been given targets by government to deliver to that money. We're going to have
to be bold so some things won't work and others will work better than we
anticipated but fundamentally my next election will be if the public think
they're getting value for money and that they have seen change on the ground and
impact on their lives and more money in their pockets.
you
Thank you and thanks for using that example because we were frustrated that there was
a cliff edge to the Brownfield Housing Fund with negotiations and the use of soft power.
We've had that extended and also we've been allocated a further tranche of funding. So
So I think it's been incredibly helpful that it's a Labour government
because in the previous administration we had no access to use our soft power
of lobbying and relationships, building and evidence that would then enable government
to see that this was a good idea to invest.
So being able to say to the Deputy Prime Minister and to the Treasury,
we have built more affordable homes in West Yorkshire
since any time since the economic crash in 1997.
So if you want to be builders, not blockers, invest in us and we will deliver.
And to the soft power conversation around that,
being able to say to government, we have a collaborative approach that is really working.
So the West Yorkshire Housing Partnership, which is all the housing associations
coming together to help us deliver on those stretch targets has also shown the developers
that we can work collaboratively together to get across and move at speed when there's
glitches or planning issues and that has meant that we also now have a developers forum because
they see the value in working collectively here in West Yorkshire because that's how we're getting
things done and what was very pleasing was ahead of the UK Reef which you'll know is the property
event coming to Leeds at the end of May. We had a launch at Arup a few nights ago
and there were people that had never been to West Yorkshire and we had a
panel of all of our six chief executives talking thematically about our missions
and our ambitions for our region and the response in the room was really quite
overwhelming because the people that don't know us were gobsmacked at the way
that we work in partnership and collectively,
because whilst we take it for granted,
elsewhere, whether that's political shenanigans,
whether that's different local governmental tiers that
are getting in the way, that there was a uniform desire
to work with us in West Yorkshire
because of that collaboration, that use of the soft power.
So I hope that's a couple of good examples.
Yes, please, Ben.
Just to add to that, so in addition to what the mayor has said, often we try and capture
that, the arguments that are being made in letters, so there's a fairly steady stream
of constructive letters to the government, but essentially saying how we would like things
to work and a couple of letters have been written in that space around the housing and
agenda, the Brownfield Housing Fund, and we often publish those either directly or we
add them into combined authority papers. But it's all the advocacy that goes on
around that. So you have to be able to make the argument very cogently. You have
to, as the Mayor has said, have strength in numbers so that the stronger the
partnership, so often the Mayor will be doing this in conjunction with one or
more of the local leaders to show that there's a common front. And then the point I was
going to make is that we then do exactly the same at an officer level. We have a
of channels into the government departments that are involved in the devolution white
paper and the other pieces of legislation that will also affect devolution.
The mayor's mentioned Sarah Eaton, our director of strategy, her teams sit on most of the
working groups.
So there's a constant process of trying to make sure that the civil servants that are
drafting the legislation are doing so in full acknowledgement of the practical hurdles and
objectives of these things when they finally hit the ground.
I think we are influencing because governments are also looking towards
to help them make decisions about devolution
because we are all collectively feeling our way through it,
to be quite honest.
I think I've spoken before at this committee
about we are on the bridge we're building
to a future that's a bit blurred,
and in 10 years time, we're gonna look back and go,
gosh, we were in the foothills there of devolution.
So we are all collectively collaborating to say
what are the things that are going to help us?
So for example, the general power of competency,
where we are able to make decisions for our region
that aren't necessarily decisions we have to go back
to government to make, to make, to help us make.
Whether that's the freedoms on fiscal devolution,
having conversations about how do we become
more self -sufficient.
A couple of examples, I'm not quite sure
if I've got to the nub of your question,
but okay.
Please.
Just to add to what the mayor said,
it's really hard to say,
because of the nature of soft power and advocacy,
it's very hard to say that as a result of this conversation
with a civil servant, this then changing the legislation.
Because obviously we're not the only organization
that is engaging in this,
but we do try and do so collectively,
and it's a key role of the UK Mayors Network
that the mayor chairs, where you try and say, OK,
could we have a common voice on these things?
But going back a little bit, I would
say that we were making the arguments that the way
that the government was doing devolution deals
with these kind of bespoke, very detailed arrangements that
was leading to disparities between different mayors
was quite an inefficient way to do it.
And they should try and find a more organized and coherent way
to do that.
Did that lead to the levelling up white paper
that had the devolution framework that still exist
in a slightly modified form today?
You can never be sure, can you?
But the result was they did move towards a more sensible
construct.
And you can see that in various of the things
that we're trying to work for.
Because I think the civil servants,
certainly, genuinely, they recognize
that they're not as close to the implementation
and how these policies will impact on the ground
as offices and combined authorities
and local authorities are.
So they need us in the helping of drafting a good policy.
Thanks, Councillor Carter.
Thanks, Chair.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:21:53
It's a bit convoluted, is this little bit.
Geraldine Carter - 0:21:56
I'm looking at soft powers and promotion of the region.
I'm latching it onto that one.
I am also a written and punished Councillor
as well as being on Calderdale Council.
and it seems that parish councils were so far down the line that we don't seem
to have an input into the combined authority because there's no mechanism
for us being there but we do have issues around governance of our areas and one
of the big issues for us at the moment is around Junction 22 of the M62. Now it
has to be promotion of the region that I'm putting it under because if you come
off at Junction 22 and this is your entrance into West Yorkshire I'm afraid
and it's not wearing out, it's not something that's going to fill you with loads of enthusiasm
because of the issues that we've got.
The land is a very difficult problem, part of the land is governed by Yorkshire Water.
Then you've got something that is done with Highways England.
Coldedale Council has a little bit to do with highways
and then you get some other bits and pieces, there's a piece of land that nobody at all will claim responsibility for
and it is now full of flammative things that nobody wants.
And so it is a bit of a problem around that junction, there are all sorts of issues, because nobody seems to want to talk to one another.
So I'm wondering if in your powers of soft power, you could act as an advocate to try and get Highways England, Yorkshire Water,
called it our council to look and I dread to say that, I hate to say this but because of how the land was devolved
back in 1992 was it when it went to Yorkshire Wolf Tap, there might still be a little bit of a square which is what's causing me the problem
that actually is what was West Yorkshire's and now comes under your e -mic. So I wonder could you do things like get involved in an advocacy role
in that sort of thing because our motorway junctions are very very important to our region
because it's what sets the bar for people coming in for tourism or even for business and I know
if you look at junction 25 there's Kirklees, there's Colderdale, there's all sorts of bits
and pieces around that it's very hard to get everybody together to talk about bits that
are important and I just wondered whether you could do that.
Well, can I say, Councillor, when you say that Rippon doesn't have an advocacy, I think
you've just done it right there.
So thank you for raising it.
It's something that we could definitely take away and have a look.
I don't know anything about this topic, but Ben, do you know anything about it?
I mean, if we could take that away.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I don't talk about the specific example, but I think there's an interesting question
around, does scrutiny have a view on whether mayors should be intervening in very local matters, when arguably
there are already democratic structures in that space. We tend to work at the level of West Yorkshire, advocating at that level, and working on those issues of common interest across West Yorkshire, rather than going in in that detail. Is that fair to say?
I think that's the question for the committee,
that you already have a process of democratically elected
leaders who you would hope would be
able to manage something that needs that relationship
building.
It does feel, for example, if I may use an example,
when Microsoft wanted to build a hyper data center in Leeds,
They were really struggling with access to the grid and a number of planning issues now
I was able to convene everybody that needed to be in the room whether that's lead City Council the office of investment
northern
northern power grid to try and
Get to the heart at the nub of the problem and solve it because of this huge investment that's coming to our region now
we were able to do that and that's definitely where this the
the mayoral office really does work,
where we have one particular problem that's
stopping investment of many millions of pounds,
that we were able to iron out those glitches.
But I'd be interested in people's thoughts,
whether they felt this was a matter for the mayor
or for local elected councillors.
The bigger picture about why people vote
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:26:36
I don't know why they're going to see that having combined authority makes a difference.
About how that feels after a period of time, things are all being seen to happen.
General power of competence has been talked about for as long as I've been on councils.
But if you can get that for the combined authority, local authority that appear alongside, I don't like to say below, would be interesting.
Because my theory is that people have become a bit disengaged
because of the lack of powers to actually do things
that make a difference in our health.
So that brings me on to the interest
I have in how we're going to measure the impact of some
of the health and the health.
So for me, it's about health, housing, employment.
And that work that's going to start
as a version of IPS, which works with people
with mental health issues, support people with health
but also the biggest challenge I see and everything I do is the challenge in housing.
I'm fit housing, I have access to housing and social housing in particular.
The impact it has on employment, families, mental health and everything is unbelievable.
So what we need to do is, turn my phone off,
see how all of those things can play into a situation where in three or four years time
and we can actually show the houses, the jobs,
the improved communities and the income
that has flowed into that.
Five or six people in one street getting into a job
like that transforms a local entity.
And I know as a localist, I'm now beginning to be convinced
that what we're doing here is unblocking destruction
for that, how you would cover that land
to talk about it, things like that.
So the question is how, where do we see that getting to,
That's where it's at for you, isn't it, in terms of both families, both people.
But can we get that, can we get government to let go, can we get central government to let go and give the authorities below it proper standing?
Because we've got local administration in this country, we don't have local government.
We're simply exercising the duties that are passed down to us. We don't have a foundation of our own.
And that's, I think, heading up the year.
But if you can get through that with the power of confidence
and combined authority, then maybe things will follow.
Thank you so much.
And to that point, we are working really hard
to ensure that we get the freedom to use our powers,
not just in mayoral delegated powers,
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:29:13
but powers that changes across the whole of West Yorkshire.
and in other areas over and above skills and transport etc. But your comments
about housing really chime with mine. We cannot get people's lives improved if
people don't have a secure home. It's a fundamental building block for a secure
future and that's why affordable housing has been such a priority for me in
everything that I'm doing and I've spoken before to this committee that that's why I'm in my role
because I have that starting life of a secure home that was social housing. I think your point
is well made about the connection between poor housing and poor mental health and also poverty.
there is a real monkey gym of connections that if you don't have one you might not have
the other and so on. That's why I'm really excited about the work that we're doing on
the Trailblazer and the Accelerator with the ICB, that we are taking a 360 approach with
people where it isn't just about get a job, it's like you know where to live, how can
can we help you sort that out?
Are you really struggling with your mental health
or addiction?
Can we help you to sort that out before we even say
you've gotta go and get a job and help you with your CV?
So too many people are too far away.
But as we've used as an example in the past,
the bus driver training scheme with Realize in Homewood,
we chose Homewood specifically because we have
intergenerational unemployment and poor mental health
coming from underemployment and poverty.
So being able to get those training schemes
for well -paid jobs, 150 people became bus drivers
because of that course.
Now, I'm not saying they all went into bus driving,
necessarily, it'll be interesting to follow
their trajectory and the health and wellbeing
of their families after the impact of that course.
But also the telecoms course that we ran.
we chose to ensure that it was those furthest away from employment and those with a criminal record,
where the telecom sector would accept people with a historic criminal record, getting into work and
having the dignity of work and the security of a wage, but also then saying well the women aren't,
where are the women running a female only course, lengthening the course, shortening the days so
They could still continue in their caring responsibilities.
And those women who, when I spoke to them,
they were in temporary or insecure work,
poorly paid, now getting the opportunity for actually
a career in telecoms, giving them
security, financial security so they could support
their families.
And many of them were single parents
to help with mental health.
But of course, then, going on to an opportunity
where they could maybe get out of poor social housing and get into the private housing,
where it's maybe got a house with a garden rather than a flat, so people can move on
and make choices in their lives. It's absolutely all interconnected that health is wealth and
wealth is health, but also housing is such a personal commitment of mine and I'm really
pleased that this government seemed to share it when the Deputy Prime Minister is saying,
you know, get rid of the legislations that are holding us back from building.
My challenge to the sector is we are building homes at the same pace as we
did 10, 15 years ago. Why aren't we accelerating the speed at which we're
building homes and this is because then that potentially devalues the price of
the home. So it's run on a basis of profit. So we've also got to try and
to readjust the market.
One example is Bradford City Village,
where we are taking a big decision as a combined authority.
It is a new approach from us that we are trying
to change the market for housing in Bradford
by building high quality, beautiful homes
in the center of Bradford.
If you've seen Bradford recently,
It's looking stunning in the center of Bradford.
We've invested many millions in Transforming Cities Fund,
so the public realm.
We've invested in Bradford Life, 50 million,
the renovation of the Media Museum.
PwC have invested in a fantastic office block
there by the water pool.
Many investments.
What they called it? The Performing Arts Company in London that are coming.
Oh, the Brit School.
The Brit School, thank you, I lost my mind then. The Brit School coming to Bradford because they see the opportunity there.
And that's why we are making a statement with Homes England and Muse.
we're going to build beautiful homes that will then turbocharge the market
for people with well -paid jobs who want to live in the centre of Bradford.
Yes, please.
Just to come on to Councillor Brough's question about general power confidence.
As the paper says, we were expecting there to be something on the general power confidence
for mayors and combined authorities, no minorities in the bill, the challenge will be how constrained
they are by linking them to certain strategic outcomes or not.
So given this is a section on soft power, that is no, that we are actively seeking for
as much freedom as is possible.
I will try and be more succinct as well chair
Andrew Marchington - 0:35:54
Best I can
Picking up the mayor's very welcome comments about the issues of
Delivering housing and the problems with the current market system
I wondered how much representations you've been making about to the government about
actually trying to change the market arrangements.
We know on several European countries use a very different approach to delivering new
private sector housing where they infect land that is designated in the local planning system
for new housing is acquired by the local authority or it could be a combined authority or whatever
in effect at existing market value, non -housing use and then they in effect can then sell off or self -develop those sites
and therefore in effect all the land value gain is directly used by the public authorities to provide the services and other things
which would get away from the problem that you highlighted of the English market system in effect driving developers to
ration out the house build rate in order to keep the prices up.
So I just wondered what
representations of hanging you've been making on that as opposed to
simply trying to
the difficulties with the current system which doesn't
in fact tackle the problem of under building properly.
I'm going to be frank with you.
It's not something that I've been pushing,
because I'm not a house builder.
However, we are trying to lead by example,
so doing work on modular housing,
working with partners who are very keen to have
new models of funding.
So for example, on Kirkstall Road, Ben and myself
went to an event where they were breaking ground,
and they have pods for homeless, where
they are identified by St. Giles as people
who need that stability to get a roof over their head
in readiness for stepping on into a more secure life.
But it's not something that I've been particularly focused
on in changing the system, but it's
where we can use the system to be innovative is my approach.
but maybe, Ben, you've got more intel.
Well, as the Mayor says, the short answer is no, we're not doing anything in that space.
Now, why is that?
Partly because the UK planning system doesn't work well with that kind of approach.
Partly because it is back to the issue about general power of competence.
it's quite difficult for, probably what we've seen,
for combined authority to kind of speculatively acquire land
unless it can draw linkage straight back to
its primary objectives and then what you're into
is consideration of risk.
So I think Councillor Merritt, it's not something
that we were going to rule out,
but we tend to be in the space of working with
local authorities who have got sites that are already
have outstanding planning applications, sorry, planning status granted, but the development
isn't progressing and working with the land property owners and developers to try and
get a project that can fly both for them commercially with maybe some support from the public sector
but get that to a minimum. That's exactly what the mayor was talking about in terms
of public city village which is a large scale example of trying to do it that way.
I'd like to ask you if there may a question about finance and particularly the comments
of the paper about an integrated settlement. What are the constraints in the current regime
that you'd like to change? I mean, it's mentioned that true single pot, is that the point you'd
to pay out whether just one pot of central government money that you can spend as you want.
Andy Rontree - 0:40:19
Thank you for that. As we've discussed at previous meetings, part of the challenge of being a mayoral
combined authority was the beauty contest bidding wars that we had to undertake, where we developed
a plan, it had to be very rigorous and detailed, very time consuming and expensive, and then we'd win
we'd lose. So we've been saying to government, this is ridiculous, a waste of public money.
You know how much you've got in the pot and where you want to spend it and what sort of
projects. You've got to give us the respect that we know our communities and we know what
to do with that money and how we would grow our economy by using it. So the integrated
settlement is a way to try and tackle that bidding war where our
success is someone else's failure. So for example the 70 million plus adult
education budget, five different funding streams, five different departments,
different deadlines, a whole load of mayhem. We try and hide the wiring but
it's inefficient and makes everybody, you know, it distracts
from actually delivering.
So what we're saying is anticipate or have an equation
which will help you work out what each region
would normally get and then just give us that pot
and then we can team and ladle the money as we see fit.
Now is it totally what we want?
Maybe not quite because there is still,
this is for transport, this is for skills potentially.
So we're still making the case that those greater freedoms and flexibilities where we can maybe pause one funding stream and move people around and then pick it up again when things come back to in greater readiness, etc.
Where we can just be more innovative and more fleet of foot and more agile to get better value for money.
We are all, I'm a Yorkshire woman, I really care about the value of every pound that we spend.
What I can't bear is waste, that we are jumping to government's tune and then potentially the project doesn't get the green light.
So this is a direction of travel that all mayors want.
Now there is only a number of Mayoral Strategic Authorities that have this single settlement, so I'm very pleased that we are seen and we are one of them more mature to be given it.
Andy Rontree - 0:42:56
Jane Ryiah - 0:43:00
I wanted to come back to what you were talking about, the health and growth accelerator,
the ITB led and the economic inactivity trailblazer that's been led by the Combined Authority.
I understand that this is a pilot and the Combined Authority has been allocated money to fund that.
And obviously this is connected to getting people back to work.
So what I'm hoping is that this can then be a long term program, because obviously it takes quite a long time
to support individuals to get back to work.
And I wondered whether that was the case,
whether we would keep being funded.
Thank you, and I know that Kurt,
please do some really innovative work
getting people back into the workplace after being unwell.
Now, look, we've been given this money for a year.
The ICB have been given it for a year.
We have said we can't afford to waste three months setting up a committee or a structure
We're just coming together with 20 million quid
We're going to develop a program of works. We've got to be innovative and bold as well because what we've been doing
Isn't having the impact that we'd like it to but you're right. It's only a year
I'm hoping we hit the targets and our innovations
and our
and our interventions make a difference.
What we will be doing is we will be working
with our partners around West Yorkshire
and seeing best practice and supporting that best practice
because why reinvent the wheel?
We will also be working with the charitable sector
and community groups who are already doing
a lot of this work because we are not necessarily
the most trusted partner for some communities.
It'll be the people who run their local,
you know, drop -in center and so on. So, you know, with a fair wind we'll hit our
targets. It is frustrating that it's only for a year but the government need to see
that it's going to work. I'm pleased that we've been seen as people who are
already in this space and can deliver and the Pathfinder work indicates that
confidence. You'll know that we've already got colleagues from DWP,
seconded into our organisation and vice versa because we share the same ambitions, why are we
two different organisations? But we do know that job centres are the places of sanctions, so to try
and get people to go to job centres to look for help and support is always going to be a challenge.
So we're looking to do things differently. I'm also glad that the timing has helped us,
that we've just agreed half a million pounds for creative health, working out of Huddersfield
University with the National Health Centre and partners in the ICB, about also how we
use that money to try and get people who are suffering stress and anxiety, things that
potentially could be solved in six months, back into a stronger position where they're
ready for work.
Jane Ryiah - 0:46:27
Thank you. And I would say there is some great work going on in Kirkley. There was an event
that I went to last night where it was celebrating young people and the work placements that
they have been involved in. Thank you.
you
Talks about the
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:47:11
The report that David Blunkett Lord David Blunkett's been asked to produce
and it's got a target date to meet with the spending review of June 2025, is that going to be coming to the combined authority or is it just going to go straight to the spending review?
Thank you so much for asking about this. I am very proud that we as mayors have been able to come together to, ahead of the spending review, make the case to government that if you want to grow the economy you have to invest in transport.
we have been notoriously underfunded and with small amounts of money relatively
you can see big changes here on this side of the Pennines. We've brought in
Lord Blunkett as somebody that really has energy and passion and determination
to get the best for the communities of Yorkshire. He's been a brilliant advocate
for us. Now this report is at the final stages of design. We are not intending to
bring the report to the Combined Authority but it will be publicly
available. We're also having a launch of the report in the next few weeks. We will
be at Leeds Station and then Arup to take questions from journalists and from
members of other teams and so on to talk about how government, if they back us, they will definitely see big changes.
This isn't about huge east to west infrastructure projects.
It's about, for example, faster trains between Leeds and Sheffield, electrification of Leeds and Sheffield line,
the Thru station in Bradford, capacity support in Leeds City Station to help all of our region.
And I know that Councillor Merrick will also have his thoughts about the connectivity,
York, Scarborough and so on. So it is an opportunity for us to work together
and once we know the outcome of the mayorality election in Hull and East Yorkshire,
we can also invite that mayor to come and join the White Rose so that we have a
consolidated voice to say to government you want growth, transport is the key.
I couldn't possibly comment.
I don't think the majority of people really know what the West
Geraldine Carter - 0:50:32
Yorkshire Mayor does. I
think it's a very difficult one to get over what the West Yorkshire Mayor does because
Ben has already said it's a strategic role. So I think that's very difficult when you
look at the local government and all the different steps as to what the West Yorkshire Mayor
does. I'm not saying you should do any more. I did see you on the politics show the other
day. I think if people wanted to know more, they could find out more. But it is hard to
know I think what the West Yorkshire Mayor is supposed to be doing, if that's the words
to use, for the public at large in West Yorkshire. I think that's the problem.
I think I'm helped actually by the fact that we were a transport authority prior to being
combined authority. So I think if the public know anything they will know that
I'm in charge of transport. In York and North Yorkshire it's not the same so I
think it's a more challenging task for David Scaife because he doesn't have
that responsibility. I would hope that the public have heard about the Mayor's
Fair and certainly when I was campaigning probably every third door
we talked about buses and transport and cheaper tickets and making them reliable
and the tram has cut through I think people do understand now what the tram
is and how the tram will make a difference but you ever it's a very real
point you know that people want to just get on with their lives they're
disconnected potentially with politics they want their lives to be smoother and
and quite frankly I don't want to be front and centre of people's lives. My vision is the
the narrative that someone wakes up in an affordable warm home with bills they can afford, they leave
to go to work, they step out their door, there's a bus stop there, the bus comes in five minutes,
it's an affordable price, it's reliable and it's clean, that bus takes them to a really great job
where they've had the training that we've delivered and they've up -skilled because of the work we've
done, they've got a great job, they go out for lunch in a pocket park we've built
and have a nice relaxing lunch and then in the evening they go to a cultural
thing that we've invested in. I don't need to be in any of that conversation,
what I want to do is to improve the lives of the people of West Yorkshire
and certainly my fundamental challenge is to grow the economy, to put more money
in people's pockets, to bring the greater well -being to the people of West
and fundamentally for us to be the best place to live and work and start a business and raise a family,
that's what matters, not necessarily who the mayor is.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:53:20
I think we're on a road and a journey of building something that hasn't been before,
but if you remember, many of these functions used to be operating out of City House
in a district bureaucracy,
not a Yorkshire board,
which some of us got to love,
but it didn't have a public faith.
So building on transport,
building on presence to engage people
about things that are happening in their communities,
it's like any other project.
You need to have things that you can show
that you've achieved step by step,
so that you can look back and say,
we've tackled that,
smaller steps build up,
build up that engagement.
Because what we're building here is confidence in being able to change things,
that people have just become inured to stasis and stagnation after so many years.
And to begin to address some of these problems, they are huge.
But I would add that your role and the role of the Mayor and these figureheads in communities,
about bringing communities together, about inclusion, is really important.
and as the fathers of two daughters, the key bit that follows what you just said is that they feel safe enough to use the buses,
that they're able to go out at night without being harassed by inappropriate behaviour and abuse,
and that people of all backgrounds and identities matter in this city.
I'm saying that almost as a multi -mentally defiant today because it's an economic imperative,
Because where I work, if those young people in Manningham get jobs in Leeds as a result of getting better sick -form education, better apprenticeships and better engagement with Northern Wales or whoever it is they get a job with,
the multiplier that that creates for everybody in Bradford is very significant and that's what all that work in the city centre has been about.
So I think there is something about the cultural politics of it, I know that sounds a little bit old school, but being a figurehead that brings people together, you can't, you can't evolve that way.
And I'm glad that you welcome it and take it forward.
I know that it is a temporary way to say, as long as it all happens, it doesn't matter
Kate Haigh - 0:55:41
how. But it really, really does because of that engagement and that public understanding
of what's going on. And as more devolution comes, because of the fact that we're all
that strong sense of identity which does exist I think in West Yorkshire, people do understand the place,
I do think that having that understanding that there is someone who is overseeing or bringing all that together,
even though we all recognise that is not just you sitting in your office on your own doing everything,
there's a huge team and the combined authority with all the authorities that constitute it.
I do think that whilst I haven't historically always been a huge fan of Mayoral's,
I think as they develop I think they're going to be absolutely key in understanding how we can make lives better for everyone in West Yorkshire.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:56:44
Thank you, Pam May, Chair. Just to say that growth is vital but it's not growth at any cost, it's got to be inclusive growth.
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:56:49
The next area is in paragraph 12,
in concern to the public.
The question I'll start off with is,
what you're doing in question time is vague.
Where does that information get fed back into another one?
You've violated the idea of what the broad issues are.
Is there any way out there that moral minutiae get supported?
And what happens to it?
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:57:22
Thank you. So for example violence against women and girls or anti -social behaviour,
that would be captured in our very wide and deep consultations for the police and crime plan. That
would be then fed back to the police and crime committee which are they meet in Wakefield. There
there is a real scrutiny of those numbers,
that feedback from the public.
The transport, we have,
it feels like consultations are ongoing continually
because it was the mayor's big
tell Tracy about buses was I think was really early on
and then we've had a number of consultations
that have been statutory
as we've gone through the process to franchising
and the same is true of trams,
that that consultation, and it's pleasing that 70 %
of the people who took part in the consultation for TRAM
wanted it and were excited about it.
So that is all in the public domain
and will be available on our website.
We're in the process of developing, refreshing our website,
which I'm really pleased about to have one front door
where you can go into us as an organization
and find everything you need,
rather than having split focus, but it's all available in the public domain.
One of the sources of information for scrutiny boards is public concerns.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:58:51
That should inform us. Now you could argue that we as councillors should be feeding it back in again,
but again sometimes there are pockets in our communities that have difficulty in addressing consultations
because they're not IT literate you know and it's how you get that but it was
also Councillor Berry and I were at an event the other day on transport where
some people these were older people and a misconception as to what was happening
on the table I was on they were saying why because they thought I was I've
responsibility is through to you why did the mayor put the fares up you know and
it just you know and why haven't you kept the flexi bus you know I think I
think you're so right counselor and I can't tell you how frustrating to go on
Radio 4 to be asked by Emma Barney why have you put the fares up it's like
trying to keep calm Emma it's actually 50 50 P cheaper than the national cap
and we put them up because we want to build the routes that the companies are
cutting back on so that whilst we go through this transition,
that the roots aren't cut threadbare into the bone
so that people have no way of getting to shops or doctors
or work and so on.
So it is frustrating.
That's why you are my superpower,
because you're councillors and you talk to the public.
But also, if I may, Chair, say I have an opportunity as well
when I speak to full council and also to Labour group
that I can hear back from you and also to feedback to what I'm hearing from the public.
So we are sharing information. So accessibility to you and to me I think is really important
that we meet regularly and I'm also available to the public to hear what they have to say.
I understand obviously there's no infinite money tree for funding everything and it's
a difficult situation but I suppose just from the frustration with the £2 .50 going up from
£2, if it's a return journey it's adding a pound to the journey so actually for a lot
people £4 feels a lot more difficult than £4. I know it sort of made me question whether I want to get the bus sometimes.
That's because I'm from Merseyside, I originally ended up in Yorkshire so I am quite cheap.
So I pound it all. So I think that is just one of the difficult things. I can understand the frustration and I'm not necessarily throwing that blame at you,
but I think it is important because certainly the narrative coming from some of the other authority areas, from Greater Manchester and Merseyside,
they have been making quite a lot of noise about how they're keeping it at two thousand, that's a difficult situation.
So I suppose that's the public perception of it.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:01:49
The other thing I was just going to say is on that last point is obviously you speak,
you don't come to all four councils so you don't come to Bradford.
So, not four council, sorry.
That's another thing.
So sometimes say for opposition councillors in Bradford, we don't necessarily have that same in -road from you
Matt Edwards - 1:02:06
and we actually do want to engage you quite constructively so I wonder if you're open to hearing from us
because we are representing some different areas.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:02:15
Luckily, I'm hearing from you now, which is very valuable.
And also, being able to work with all councillors
when it comes to, for example, violence
against women and girls.
There's been projects have worked across party.
We had a meeting here, actually, with MPs, independent MPs,
from across the patch.
Can I be frank with you that often people
don't want to work with me?
because they feel that there's a political tension.
I am absolutely placed over politics.
I want to work with everybody
that wants to make West Yorkshire better.
So I'm really open to if you've got a scheme
or there's something you want to show off
or you've had an intervention,
you've fundraised for a park.
All of this stuff is to be amplified.
So to your point about the buses,
it's always difficult, isn't it,
when you have made it cheaper for people
than having to put it up a little bit
and people forget how expensive it used to be.
So it's very difficult because it used to be £6 .50 or something.
So the day saver is the way that you make the most savings.
So I would encourage you to use the M card to get the day saver
because then it's any bus anywhere, any number of journeys, all day.
So that's the way to make it cheaper.
and you are welcome doing missionary work on this side of the Pennine.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:03:44
So we can now go back to paragraph 3 .9 which is about further devolution.
So we've got the devolution white paper that's coming along so where do you see
your role changing? How do you... because you're gonna have more to do, you're gonna
need to know a lot more about a lot more and which means there'll be more
pressure on you how do you see your role changing as the mayor? I think further
devolution I think you're right Councillor that from what I knew four
years ago to what I know now and my responsibilities incredibly different
and you know I'm I'm doing a PhD in responsibilities I'm learning a lot
I can imagine in the next four years there's going to be greater knowledge and so on.
We are being asked to do more.
So for example, the renovation of flats when it comes to cladding, we are, government are
looking to us to be helpful in that space.
How do we escalate the speed at which homes can be renovated
so that people can feel secure in their homes?
There's going to be conversations about fiscal devolutions
as I mentioned, and also the health and work piece.
That's a really big piece of work.
And the way that maybe government is moving
towards more Marmot mayors, where mayors are more involved
with health and have that responsibility.
And also public service reform.
we will be expected in the in the white paper to take on responsibilities for
fire which is something that I will have to learn more about in the same way that
we did about policing and crime so I your point is well made that we're all
on a journey but I'm not doing this on my own you are all going to have to
learn much more about a lot of other things.
OK, so, Mark, you said about that.
About the pushback about some of this,
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:05:57
in the consultation of the white paper, across West Yorkshire,
and you've already referred to the housing partnership, which
has been very successive for a long time.
We had a very successful police authority,
which worked cross -party to deliver some really
massive changes in terms of production in violent crime, some cutting -edge stuff
against violence against women and domestic violence. All that was replaced
for particular reasons. So have you got any concerns about, you know, should you
really be taking on the responsibility of fire and rescue and other successful
West Yorkshire bodies? We've got fire and rescue services, there's some pushback
about saying actually the structures here in West Yorkshire already work, we
don't think the mayor ought to be dealing with that.
Pushback, not necessarily pushback.
It is an acceptance that the fire and rescue
is very successful.
Now, in some mayoralities, that's not necessarily the case.
And they have to do, they've got work
to do to build a tripartite relationship.
In West Yorkshire, we work in really healthy partnership,
actually.
And I just, if I may, gently challenge you
about the fact that in the past there was innovative work done on safety of women and
girls and police and crime. I would suggest that myself and Alison Lowe have actually
put ourselves on the front foot when it comes to our innovation in police and crime and
the police and crime panel who are there to scrutinise us have often reflected on our
ability to get things done because of our relationship building with government and
the Home Secretary, and actually I was in Parliament on Monday when there was an urgent
question on the incident in Otley around crossbows, and then there was a further urgent question
about grooming gangs.
And actually the Minister at the dispatch box reflected on the impact that the work
we've done here in West Yorkshire has changed the dial for safety of women and girls, and
she directly name checked Alison Lowe, my deputy mayor
for policing and crime.
I wouldn't suggest that government
would do that if they felt that in the past things were better.
I really think that the partnership approach that we
have taken, and also the respectful understanding
where things are working, you don't need to meddle with it.
So fire and rescue and the way that they
work with police at West Yorkshire Police
is a really healthy, robust relationship
that does get things done for the public.
I don't know if you want to say anything, Ben.
Well, only to say that I think there is a,
the white paper does kind of set out,
I think it's more implicit than explicit,
a kind of role of mayors as system leaders.
And so I don't think, the mayor might disagree with it,
I don't think you should think that a mayor
that's got police and crime powers is running the police force, they're really not.
The role is quite specific in terms of holding the Chief Constable to account and working
with the criminal justice system.
Similar things will be true on the far side, particularly in the West Yorkshire context,
where the far body is already its own statutory body.
So the real value that potentially you're able to add is that system leadership and
joining up the accountabilities and making sure that the services work with each other in the best possible way.
There can be the risk that because we think things work well in West Yorkshire, you don't see what's happening in other parts of the country where either the geographies aren't contiguous,
the join -up isn't as good, the parties don't work as well together.
So, but equally, if in those places,
the mayors do get those powers,
you will be asking us,
well, why is it that the mayor didn't have
the relevant fire rescue powers?
So there's an element of standardization
and making it more understandable to the public
what mayors do and don't means
that mayors will have to take some things on
that I think are important,
other things that just become part of the mayor's portfolio.
And if I may say that sometimes these decisions are
because of problems elsewhere.
Now in West Yorkshire, we are blessed with coterminosity.
So our ICB, our police and crime,
and our five local authority regions are all coterminous.
I can't overstate how valuable that is,
because we're not working cross -border.
We're not trying to wrangle three police and crime
commissioners together with different values or approaches.
It's something that gives us enormous strength, particularly when we talk to government.
We know everybody, we work collectively together, we share the same ambitions, we get things done.
Jane Ryiah - 1:11:01
Thank you, Chair. The White Paper suggests that mayors will be able to appoint commissioners to take on mayoral powers.
and I'm wondering what the effect of that might be in terms of the relationship that you have with local authorities
and the leaders of those local authorities.
Yeah, I guess I'm just wondering what that relationship, whether it would change and how it would change it.
Thank you for that. And it's interesting that in London, Sadiq Khan has a number, a raft of deputy mayors,
commissioners and so on. In West Yorkshire I have two deputy mayors, one had to be a council leader,
I'm pleased that James Lewis was happy to do it, and a deputy mayor for policing and crime,
Alison Lowe. I also had a manifesto commitment for an inclusivity champion, which is Fatima Khan -Shah,
to help me to empower communities that feel the furthest away from power and our decision -making,
to bring them closer and to help with health inequalities.
So we share that role, the cost of that role with the ICB.
The other appointment I would say is the business,
the mayor's business advisor is Mandi Rijad from Progemax.
She's the co -chair of Space Hub Yorkshire.
She's a really passionate advocate for our region
and does delegate for me in business forums.
Above and beyond that, we've had conversations about an active travel commissioner.
Do we feel that that's necessary at the moment?
I'm not thinking that we will be currently in the immediate future needing more commissioners,
but I don't know, Ben, if you've thoughts about what other mayoralities are doing elsewhere.
So this is something that other mayors are looking at.
I think the challenge or opportunity, depending on how you see it in West Yorkshire, is, as you pointed out,
it's the leaders that, through their chairing of the command authorities subcommittees,
that kind of take on some of that commissioner -stroke thematic lead role.
And that seems to work very well in terms of providing a greater depth of expertise on certain topics
and joining up across West Yorkshire.
So I think it's a bond that we're going to work through
as and when that opportunities arise, I think.
I think that's a very good comment because, for example,
Susan Hinchcliffe from Bradford Council,
she's the chair of the Transport Committee,
and she's also co -chair of the Rail North Committee,
working across the North.
Her understanding and advocacy of transport
is second to none.
So she also acts as an ambassador, I would suggest,
or a commissioner when it comes to transport.
She's not commissioning services,
but she's definitely speaking for us as an organization.
Jane Ryiah - 1:14:14
Yeah, and sort of as a counter to that point about,
Kate Haigh - 1:14:16
which is obviously the mayor of London
is a different kind of mayor, obviously,
and I think that's possibly one of the things
that measures, it's understanding
what those levels are.
So obviously, as a combined authority,
the constituent authorities are the authority itself.
So I think it's entirely appropriate
that that democratic structure does actually
involve having the leaders rather than appointees.
And I might have said it in a meeting earlier this week,
you want to avoid kind of Trump -esque picky mates
and let them get on with it and just annoy everybody else.
A sort of situation, I'm sure you'd very much be in favor
of not taking that approach yourself.
So I think understanding the kind of minority,
the structures, it's entirely appropriate
to bring in champions or whatever,
but I wouldn't want to weaken the link
between yourself and the leaders
in terms of what we need to deliver for the authority itself.
If I may say any role that I would develop or want to appoint to would go through a proper process
that isn't just you're my mate, you know, do you want this job? That's not how I do things, so be reassured I'm not a mus -trump.
I think.
Sorry, Jack.
Well, can I just come back on the point you really clearly
and well made about the differences between London
and what happens outside of London.
And the mayor of London doesn't have that direct relationship
with the boroughs in the way that the mayor here
has a direct relationship with the community
combined authority, with the constituent authorities.
That is a massive difference.
And I think one of the dangers,
we're going back to our conversation
about why we seek to influence civil servants is to remind them of some of those differences.
Because if they say, well, London's got commissioners and they seem to work well, they're prominent
people, if it's not done in full sight of that relationship with the petitioning authorities,
then you end up trying to impose something outside of London that really isn't going
to work.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:16:35
Yes, to the public at large, we seem to be moving towards having a West Yorkshire council,
albeit vested into one person. Is this a re -running of history or a road back on the past? Because
obviously many of us feel the roles you're going to want to take over in regard to planning
and have already talked about education,
seems to suggest more centralization we've
had in the past 30 -odd years.
I really value my partners in local authorities.
And I've been making the case at every opportunity
that they need fair and long -term funding
to deliver the things that they do brilliantly.
I'm not trying to create my own fiefdom or land grab anything. What I want to do
is to make things straightforward and easier but have that strategic view that
when you're in a local authority you may not be thinking beyond your border but
that's why I was delighted when as West Yorkshire and all of the partners came
together with West Yorkshire 2040 vision that we are all bought in to that
strategic vision about what we want for West Yorkshire that we can be greater
than the sum of our parts to boost our economy and to be seen to be a place to
come and invest because you will get a soft landing because we all want to help
work with you to deliver and to create those jobs and to build those homes and
and to do it collectively and not put your arm around particular powers and say they're all mine.
This is not the way I operate, I'm a collaborator.
No, can I just come back on that?
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:18:23
It's not to suggest that this was something deliberately, but a drift in the way that England was governed,
rather than being anything intentional,
it's just a way that we seem to be moving.
But surely the case has been made
that the over -centralization in this country
has held us back in comparison to our European partners.
So in France, for example, the mayors have much,
they operate like governors,
and they have better outcomes of health
and life expectancy,
all of the things that we're all trying to achieve, we have been held back by all of
the power being held at the centre. So I do welcome that loosening of the grip.
But Ben, do you want to come in?
Yeah, I don't think that there's any hidden agenda or drift towards recreating kind of
metropolitan county councils. I really think that isn't what is happening here. You can
see that in the government's agenda around local government reform is around
unitarisation, effectively. We already have that in West Yorkshire and as the mayor
said, we're really clear and the local authorities, the combined authority are
really clear about who does what and most of the things that the early
conversation talked about what the mayor's trying to achieve are done through those
to local authorities, there is no desire on either side
for kind of osmosis by the combined authority groves
and local authority shrink.
That is just not what is going on in this space.
And I think that's one of the real risks here
is that when the media talk about mayors
getting planning powers, it's almost implied,
therefore, that the local authorities are losing something,
which they're really not.
And in effect, we're talking about devolution
of the bit of planning that the Secretary of State
used to do coming down to mayors
and giving mayors a strategic role which is needed.
So as all of these things, the devil is in the detail.
And it's really important for us to keep reminding people
actually factually what's going on here,
rather than just the kind of media narratives around mayors
getting increased powers and taking things over.
Because I don't think that's what's going on.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:20:45
Mayors not prefects, I think is what we're talking about.
Because in France you have a prefecture and another one.
I do remember West Yorkshire, Metropolitan County Council, and the problem of the old
county councils were they didn't really have enough to make themselves fully relevant.
They had a thin range of powers. They didn't require a place -based thing.
But West Yorkshire, unlike most former Macs, kept most of its county -wide functions going
in other forms because it made common sense so to do.
That seems to be the model that we've kept going and we should keep going with that because we get trading standards together.
We could have just marked it. The old PTE was one of the most effective in the country and has given you a good...
You've inherited that and that's a balanced blessing.
But I do think we need to get across to people that weren't looking at pulling powers down from above.
Because one of the consequences of the stripping out of local government funding and the moving to the contest,
the contest for funding competing resources was a centralisation of power almost by edict.
And that letting go, I think we've seen this presented in the wrong way and we need to try and get the narrative right,
but what this is about is giving communities more say rather than having to go on.
I remember going to see City Challenge 1, Matt,
that was in the old Homewood area.
It was a contest before Michael Heffelkone in a room.
People literally had to perform to beg
for funding for their communities.
We had various iterations of that.
And if we can get beyond that, so really, let's look at,
explain to people that we're trying to take the man from,
you know, the old man, it was always a man
from the ministry, and empty that.
and hand that power into West Yorkshire.
And that's what we're trying to do. We're not trying to pull stuff up, even from the parish council.
Any other issues on the de -relationship?
I'll just go back.
So, one of the things that...
In the pre -meeting I was saying that in my relationships with you,
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:23:07
you're wanting to basically sprint almost from day one.
You want to be in there, you want to be at the forefront. Is there anything you think that we as scrutiny need to start working on just now to help you to actually achieve that?
So on day one, whenever day one is, we are ready to go
and you are out there at the forefront.
I might have to give that some thought, Councillor,
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:23:35
but I would say an understanding of franchising
and an understanding of the tram network,
I think for this committee,
because I'm learning rapidly a lot of quite technical stuff.
So I would suggest that that would give us all an opportunity to discuss it in good robust detail.
I'm not sure Ben if there's anything that we could help the chair with.
I think you've got nothing.
Yeah, okay good.
Because we're setting up a shadow of bus franchising board
and the detail of that about the lotting arrangements,
about the depots, the EV buses,
these are very,
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:24:24
they're complex and technical sometimes,
but they're really important
because we have to future proof it
for our ambitions going forward.
We don't want just to do what we've always got.
We want to build the best bus network
and the best transport network in the country.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:24:44
Just on that point, is it possible to maybe look at it a little bit differently? Years
ago there was a suggestion of a hub system in places where even in a small area there
was like a bus station that was a hub system and then buses went out from there in that
area, particularly in the rural areas. And then you changed the bus further on the line
So they haven't got this long systems of buses running a long way and they were only running every so often because they were not financially viable.
Is it possible to look at that sort of a system and have a hub system? I know it's a bit difficult one.
I used to like the 576 to Tom, but I'm from Bathford.
Please, let them hear.
The hub system, what we're looking at is a transport plan that works for everyone.
Now we understand that in rural communities there are different challenges. We are taking the network from 21 and we are shifting and lifting that network, how we looked in 21, to franchising.
and then once we have that in place, the first phase will be 27, we will then start to build
on that, listening to the public, working with our partners and our councillors and
our council leaders and of course our experts about what we can do to make sure people get
access to buses. What we don't want is double deckers, trundling or empty around country
roads and we the public are paying for it but it's not actually serving a purpose.
Living in the Cone Valley I'd often see like double deckers like what are you
doing on my tiny road and there's nobody in it but people have lost confidence in
buses so we have a job to do to build that confidence to get more people to
use them so it's a complicated but really exciting task
ahead of us.
Well, only to say, I think this just reiterates to your previous question around how can the
committee help. These issues with bus franchise, what the Mayor is actually saying is on day
one, as franchise comes into effect, it's about keeping the assistance
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:27:09
system operational,
not losing passengers. Thereafter, you can begin to look at what is the best way to serve
the needs of the people of West Yorkshire and that's the system from there on.
But we would certainly want to say that we would want to manage public expectations that
the day that franchising comes into effect there will be wholesale changes in different
buses and different bus routes.
That's really not going to happen.
We've got to get the system working and then change it every time.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:27:38
Thank you.
I just wanted to I represent an area which is I suppose on the fringe of West Yorkshire
In terms of bus from a
Cold award so upper upper Calder Valley
Well, so that's partly Hebden Bridge. It's partly Todd London as well
Obviously our buses
The key buses the strategic buses go through to other
transport areas, one way to Burnley, the other to transport for Greater Manchester.
We have all sorts of problems with First Bus because of those routes.
We've just got the 590 bus route running right the way through back to Halifax,
but what they then did is that they then halved the number of buses to Burnley.
So we've got that constant problem.
And that is the if you like that's the backbone of our entire bus service
It's the way that rural buses feed into the main system
It's also because of the way the economy's work people cross the borders to work to shop do all those sorts of things
Get to the local garden center even you know, I couldn't do that so recently until they put the 590 back
So the question I've really got is about working,
when you're franchising, is working with other
transport authorities, Transport for Greater Manchester,
making sure that routes that are strategic
could cross boundaries as well.
And I wonder what thoughts you'd have about that
and whether that's something that will happen
under franchising because for us that's absolutely key to keeping those routes
and making them effective and keeping a really good rural bus service as well.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:29:41
Well if that isn't a passionate advocacy for franchising I don't know what is
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:29:48
because it's hopeless and you're reliant on the bus company to help you out when
they cut a service. We are already, us as the public, are funding 15 % of the cost
of these routes already. I mean, you know, we need to move at speed to franchising to
solve some of these problems. About the cross -border work, of course, and surely
that's what franchising is going to give us that opportunity to do. In the Cone
Valley there's loads of yellow buses, aren't there, going and Calder Valley as well.
And that's why the White Rose agreement was so important because of this side of
pen lines, buses to Barnsley from Wakefield and buses from Leeds to York.
You know, we should be able to navigate this in a better, more mature way.
There are dispensations to allow other bus operators that are undertaking cross boundary routes to come into West Yorkshire and vice versa.
Ben Still, Chief Executive (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:30:46
So that is well established with Greater Manchester already,
as you can tell by the fact that AirBusters are already in cool for them.
So we don't see a problem with that working and continuing to work.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:31:00
Anyone have any other questions?
I've got one.
Thank you, Chair.
Mayor, you were saying that in relation to franchising,
you have the, it will be based on how services were in 2021 and that is to be implemented
through contractors, the starting point for fundraising. And then you'll start to address
what are the needs now. Is there any way of getting that going as a parallel process so
that we have a better idea of what the up -to -date needs are
and applying them as soon as possible, thank you.
Of course that work is ongoing.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:31:48
That's been part of our consultation,
it's been part of our engagement,
what routes people need, and also with our tram network,
where does the tram serve the bus and vice versa.
We're also getting statutory powers over some rail,
So where the rail network is within our boundaries, for example, the five towns, that opportunity
will also feed into our transport plan. So you may have seen some of the consultation
around the integrated transport plan that we have been discussing, because that absolutely
connectivity, it chimes to your point about where do we need connectivity, because it
isn't just where the homes were built in 2021, of course it's where the homes are built or
are about to be built in 26 that's going to also impact on our transport plan. So we have
the work that we're doing for franchising but also our integrated transport plan.
So my question neatly follows on from that.
The focus of the authority is very much in terms of the actual public transport side
of the wider transport agenda, although you obviously do have powers over strategic road
networks. What I'd like to ask about is in terms of the future, recognizing obviously
I think the franchising and the trams are the big focus for this four -year period.
How are we dealing with the actual other traffic management side of issues?
There's obviously a relationship between the combined authority and individual local authorities
and their traffic managers who have responsibilities
under the 2003 Act, I think it is.
What thoughts have you got about how that relationship should
develop in the future, how you actually
look at the traffic management side,
particularly for urban areas where congestion interferes
with local bus services, those types of issues.
but also issues like car parking policies, both provision and pricing.
They obviously have a direct, well that's a particularly direct relationship with the attractiveness of the services and so on.
So I wondered what about the wider traffic picture, not just the public transport side of it?
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:34:42
I mean, it's a team sport that we have to work collectively across the patch and currently
I don't have responsibilities for car parking and for charging.
That's obviously a local authority responsibility but there is in the single settlement conversations
about taxi licensing, unifying that to address problems potentially in other areas actually
as opposed to ours where people come from outside of the region, they're registered
elsewhere and they're coming into the city centre and taking work from taxi drivers who
are registered locally. So there is a challenge around how do we make that more efficient
with that strategic oversight, but with the traffic management hat on.
So it's a good question, Councillor Murphy.
So we don't have any, the Kumbala Project doesn't have any strategic network roll roll powers at the moment.
What we are doing working with the constituent authorities is thinking about what's the best way for the network,
the highways network to be managed when the franchise network is in place.
My starting point on the answer to that comes from actually the answer to Councillor Onach's question,
which is a big element of the bus service room will be how much funding there is available.
And that in turn, because you asked are we planning the network in the future,
Well, we are, but you have to do that hand in hand with planning what the financial modeling for that works, if you don't mind,
which is that combination of Fairbox, other sources of income, and then how you then deploy the buses as a result of that.
With the franchise contractors as and when they are procured and appointed, there will be a performance ratio.
and obviously you want the companies that are operating
the buses for the combined authority for the mayor
to be running the buses efficiently and it's fine.
Yes, she gets in the way of that.
Some of that new factor into the performance regime,
but it's the unexpected.
So roadworks should be planned for under,
I think it's the 2004 track management act.
She should have had a plan for that.
However, if they overrun, then the operators are able to,
we'll be able to say there's been an event here that impacts on their financial flows.
So there is an incentive now through franchising for both the highways authorities and ourselves
to really manage the network efficiently.
And so we are looking at options such as a joint traffic control centre,
certainly for the bus network and ideally for the strategic highways network across West Yorkshire as well,
looking at how we would coordinate across authorities in terms of deployment of the traffic management act and the network management duties,
and looking at cross -cutting schemes that we might roll out such as Lane -Mentall to try and improve the efficiency with which we manage streetworks,
bring streetworks together and try and control overruns and disruptions.
Thank you. Yes, I absolutely understand the taxis issue.
We have a very large chunk of the Bradford taxi fleet operating in our patch.
It does create challenges.
I think that's the challenge to the Councillor's point.
It's not necessarily West Yorkshire.
It's people coming from the Midlands, from Wolverhampton, coming up to our patch.
So there is a challenge.
And I've heard from across the other side of the Pen Ants, it's a really big problem for them.
Any other questions on evolution in a minute?
Why anything specific that you have made up of today that you can...
What do you ask her, not necessarily about her, but anything that you would like to question really?
No? In that case, can I thank you both you and Ben for coming along here today.
Much appreciated.
We will, in due time, we will hear what the strategic views are and how we will lead things forward.
And you're not quite with the doctor, you're serenely on the talk.
No, he's all under control.
So thank you, thank you very much.
Thank you for your attention.
Right, the next item we've got to get is the work programme.
Are there any questions on the work programme?

6 Work Programme

Because the successor for the world is a gift to the successor for the world.
I think, I don't know whether I just was discussing it with Carol,
but what Carol's talking about is trying to cut it down inside next year.
and green having all these on mostly on missions.
Sharper.
And the difference in that is just to be sharpened up a bit
in one of the things they look like.
But in that case, the next time we're due to meet
in January 10th is on the evening of July.
It says 2054 on the agenda.
We're gonna try to find another one.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:40:33
Did you get anywhere with regards to this query that we had about what we were allowed
to scrutinise and not scrutinise because it was interesting to hear
Geraldine Carter - 1:40:42
the Mayor say that
she would like us to be involved in looking at it across the piece to see whether something's
going to work but yet we're not allowed to see what goes on before it gets. Did you get
anywhere with that?
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:40:54
So we are hoping in the short term
that that information will be available
to elected members.
And in particular, there is an item on
next to win authority on the whiteboard station
where there's a police line taking that as well.
And there are some people who are saying
what's the call?
I asked if I could have a look at the paper and I was told no.
The first is the decision that could be made by the community density and I pushed back
with that and then I don't have a plan for changing that.
So when you get to where you get regularly, you get everything you see.
If you want to do it in a call, you can then go, what's important to you?
What is this actually about?
If you go onto the website, the data isn't there or the divinder.
So that information should get made available to you quicker nowadays as well.
So you can understand the wonderful bit and it's going to become more and more important
because we're always up to become experts in more areas
and we need to understand the different connectivity
of a lot of these things.
There's something, they learn to get close, for example,
there's no point having rules, there's not going to be transport
to get people made to be.
There's no point having rules, there's not going to be trained up
to fill any expansion that we've got.
So we need to understand that.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:43:40
what we should be able to get
stuff. When we first started the combined authority in the office, we were quite unwilling to give information beforehand.
And what actually pushed them really quite back on was the threat of calling. I think that was actually what triggered a lot of the, and actually as a result of that, we were included a lot more in the process.
So actually it's a really powerful thing and actually at some point if we aren't getting movement, that's kind of, I suppose, not wanting to use that.
Because use that sparingly, it's got to be sparingly because we don't want to delay decisions, but at the same time we are here to do our job.
And if things go wrong down the line at some point someone's going to say, well, should we have done something about it?
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:44:28
They're going to persist in saying that below the line papers you can't see, then you can't scrutinise.
And this is where the stupid anomaly comes in.
Geraldine Carter - 1:44:39
The other thing was, in the devolution papers, I still don't understand what it's all about.
I mean, now the public are supposed to know, I've no idea.
They're all operating differently, but is there still going to be in West Yorkshire
that all the West Yorkshire leaders are still going to be in effect the strategic body?
Yes.
They're not going to change that?
No, that would still be chapped with the same.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:45:12
I think at the government level, I don't think there's going to be that many teams.
The human teams, I'm aware of the government level, on the government knowledge committee,
that's going to have what we call back bench, pencil, sitting on it, rather than the leader of the city.
I thought that was the best thing there was to do in a certain time.
Yeah, that's true. Because effectively, the combined authority was marked in the wrong box.
That's not true.
Yeah, it's quite.
That's what we're doing. So next year, there will be a point fee to each council.
So we'll, the immunity can be exactly the same as the screening members are for attending.
to try and make it, you get a better type of person
coming along, a better quality person,
and also to understand there's a commitment through it.
So your piece is coming up.
It's a piece of knowledge that you experience through you
because of what you know from your own counsel.
You can then apply it here and provide
more strategic challenges to the things that are ahead.
Because you've got one or two combined authorities
to be able to do that.
And I think that's a really important thing.
And I think that's a really important thing.
And I think that's a really important thing.
The point I would make about it is it's very difficult when looking at whether you should
call in a thing. You're seeing it very much in isolation. You don't really get the context
of all the things around it. It makes it rather a challenge for people out in the field to
know how to take that forward.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:47:15
One observation I'll just make is something that Khaled mentioned from the new person.
Matt Edwards - 1:47:19
It's not necessarily making sure that we've got access to the confidential papers and
that side of stuff. It's making sure the confidential papers only contain the stuff that's confidential
and there is another information there which could end up in the top one and that's part
of the process. So like for example in the white rose one it mentions the public papers
I just mentioned how many blockers?
10.
And it says for more information
I want to see the confidential appendix
and how that looks, great,
from the research minor therapies perspective.
It's like you mentioned is a problem
but if you're more detail about the problem
we're not gonna tell you.
And is that information confidential?
That's the question.
Thanks.
I don't think we should underestimate
Andy Rontree - 1:48:07
the potential of the threat of a call in for opening things up.
And Councillor Carter's absolutely right that the actual eliciting the answers is going to be really difficult
if they'll dig their heels in and still refuse to release information.
But the fact that it's taking place, that it will presumably attract the attention of local press,
there will be hell of a fuss if it's mentioned.
I think it's a powerful tool that the threat exists even if it is it should be ready to flow down.
Geraldine Carter - 1:48:50
I'm being a bit of a pain but that question I asked the Mayor earlier about acting in an advocacy role
and it was virtually kicked into touch and told it was strategic.
I am disappointed, I've written this down, that Ben still does not feel that bringing
together intro to parties and gateways to our area which is impacting on tourism or
anything else is important. There is no mechanism, you mentioned it, competency, there's no mechanism
for a town and parish council to work with a local authority, for all of us then to work
with this combined authority and to work with government to sort something out. The only
person that can do that is the Mayor, there isn't anybody else to do that. If they're
not prepared to do it on something, I mean it's disgusting, it's Junction 22, it's full
litter and I hate to, I hope that fire has not been caused by a glass that's been tipped
illegally but if the Mayor can't do something as simple as that and bring all parties together
what can she do?
you
you
you
you
Andrew Marchington - 1:52:23
We are meant to be strategic. We're not a glorified council.
you
you
you
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