Scrutiny Committee - Friday 22 November 2024, 10:30am - West Yorkshire Combined Authority Webcasting

Scrutiny Committee
Friday, 22nd November 2024 at 10:30am 

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Forums

Speakers

Votes

 
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  2. Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
  3. Ms. Katie Wright, Scrutiny Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  4. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  5. Geraldine Carter
  6. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  7. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  8. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  9. David Jenkins
  10. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  11. Matt Edwards
  12. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  13. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  14. Cllr Bob Felstead
  15. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  16. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  17. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  18. Cllr Bob Felstead
  19. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  20. Cllr Bob Felstead
  21. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  22. Cllr Bob Felstead
  23. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  24. Cllr Bob Felstead
  25. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  26. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  27. Liz Hunter, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  28. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  29. Liz Hunter, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  30. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  31. Kate Haigh
  32. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  33. Kate Haigh
  34. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  35. Andrew Marchington
  36. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  37. Andrew Marchington
  38. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  39. Liz Hunter, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  40. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  41. Andy Rontree
  42. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  43. Andy Rontree
  44. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  45. Matt Edwards
  46. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  47. Liz Hunter, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  48. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  49. Matt Edwards
  50. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  51. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  52. Geraldine Carter
  53. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  54. Cllr Dave Merrett
  55. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  56. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  57. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  58. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  59. Cllr Ralph Berry
  60. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  61. Cllr Ralph Berry
  62. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  63. Cllr Ralph Berry
  64. Paul Godwin
  65. Matt Edwards
  66. Cllr Ralph Berry
  67. Matt Edwards
  68. Cllr Ralph Berry
  69. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  70. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  71. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  72. Geraldine Carter
  73. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  74. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  75. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  76. Geraldine Carter
  77. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  78. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  79. Cllr Dave Merrett
  80. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  81. Cllr Dave Merrett
  82. Cllr Dave Merrett
  83. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  84. Cllr Dave Merrett
  85. Matt Edwards
  86. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  87. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  88. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  89. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  90. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  91. Felix Kumi-Ampofo, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  92. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  93. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  94. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  95. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Share this agenda point
  1. Matt Edwards
  2. Cllr Ralph Berry
  3. Paul Godwin
  4. Matt Edwards
  5. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  6. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  7. Cllr Ralph Berry
  8. Geraldine Carter
  9. Cllr Ralph Berry
  10. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  11. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  12. Cllr Ralph Berry
  13. Andrew Marchington
  14. Cllr Ralph Berry
  15. Andrew Marchington
  16. Cllr Ralph Berry
  17. Matt Edwards
  18. Cllr Ralph Berry
  19. Cllr Ralph Berry
  20. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Share this agenda point
  1. Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  3. Cllr Dave Merrett
  4. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  5. Presentation Slides
  6. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  7. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  8. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  9. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  10. Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
  11. Cllr Ralph Berry
  12. Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer)
  13. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  14. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Dave Merrett
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  3. Cllr Dave Merrett
  4. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  5. Cllr Dave Merrett
  6. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  7. Cllr Dave Merrett
  8. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  9. Matt Edwards
  10. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  11. Matt Edwards
  12. Cllr Bob Felstead
  13. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  14. Matt Edwards
  15. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
Share this agenda point
  1. Kate Haigh
  2. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  3. Kate Haigh
  4. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  5. Cllr Richard Smith
  6. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  7. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  8. Cllr Ralph Berry
  9. Cllr Helen Brundell
  10. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  11. Geraldine Carter
  12. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  13. Paul Godwin
  14. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  15. Kate Haigh
  16. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  17. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  18. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  19. Cllr Betty Rhodes
  20. Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair)
  21. Webcast Finished

1 Apologies for Absence

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:00:00
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:00:01
So first thing is the Apologies for Absence.
I mentioned Mike Barnes.
Mike Barnes and...
The bill is arriving later.
Apart from that we've got a full house and we are core it.
That's good. That makes things a lot better.
Any disclosures of pecuniary interests?

2 Declaration of Disclosable Pecuniary Interests

Anybody got any interests?
You want to declare?

3 Possible Exclusion of the Press and Public

4 Minutes of the meeting held on 20 September 2024

no there are no possible exclusions of the press and public the minutes of the
meeting held on the 20th September everybody happy with the accuracy of
those anybody get any thing they want to raise there's not going to be covered

5 Mayor's Update

elsewhere or the opportunity? Nope. I'm going to take that. Right. Well, what we'll do is
we'll just do introductions. Right, well I'm Councillor Barry Anderson from Leeds
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:01:10
City Council and I chair the scrutiny board.
Yeah.
Callie.
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 0:01:15
It's great.
It's great.
It's
Ms. Katie Wright, Scrutiny Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:01:19
Councilor Geraldine Carter, called it
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:01:23
Councilor Richard Foster Wakefield
Councilor Betty Rhodes Wakefield
Geraldine Carter - 0:01:30
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:01:32
Councilor McCaffrey Kirkley's
and remarks and Kirkley's
Councilor Dave Merritt York
Felix.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:01:45
Henry's chief operating officer command authority.
I'm Simon walks and executive direct transport.
Listen to direct policing.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:01:53
Counselor and the Rontree from late city council,
counselor David Jenkins from lead city council,
David Jenkins - 0:02:04
Councillor Kate Haygley to the council.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:02:08
Councillor Ralph Barry to the council.
Matt Edwards - 0:02:11
Councillor Paul Gollan from Bradford.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:02:13
Councillor Matt Edwards to Bradford.
Councillor Bob Felstead from Bradford.
Councillor Richard Smith from Kirklees.
and not that the mayor needs any introduction but you want to introduce
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:02:37
yourself formally. Thank you. Right so we're on item five the mayor's update so
you've had a chance to read through the report that came from the mayor so I'm
now just willing to open to questions because we've all read it so Councillor
Cllr Bob Felstead - 0:02:55
else said you want to go first? I'll go first so my questions about affordable
homes and delivery of the same which is one of your mayoral pledges. I think
delivering the homes is the easy part of it the much more difficult part of it is
actually ensuring that they get to the right people so close to where I'm I
actually live at the minute there's a housing estate being built and a third
of the houses are classed as affordable and some of that was buy to rent, some of it is
outright buy and some of it was for social. But the developer sold all £150 to a London
based landlord who was obviously going to rent them out. So my question is what measures
can we put in place to prevent that sort of thing happening because quite clearly they
not reaching the actual market they were destined for. Thank you so much for that
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:03:55
question Councillor and can I say to the chair firstly thank you very much for
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:04:01
requesting printed updates because it saves time for me boring you all to
death speaking for like 20 minutes about what we've been doing and there is an
assumption that you know the details so thank you very much for suggesting that.
Regarding the affordable homes now you'll know because I've spoken about
this many times in front of the scrutiny committee how important for me affordable social homes
is and that's why it's been a priority. That's why I'm very proud that we have built more
affordable homes in the last couple of years than since 2010, since the economic crash.
We have focused all of our energies on affordability of brownfield funds, etc. That's why I was
pleased yesterday to meet the West Yorkshire Housing Partnership that's expanding. It's
a group of housing associations coming together
in a very unique way that is not reflected elsewhere
in the country, and getting feedback that ministers see us
as a region of innovation and collaboration
when it comes to delivery.
That said, we are in a capitalist society,
and there are businesses that want to make a profit,
and that they want to buy and sell homes.
We are trying to disrupt that market,
because we know that the people of West Yorkshire
deserve better.
We know that it can't be right that nearly 80 %
of people's salaries is going on rentals,
and that the market is, quite frankly, broken.
When 1 ,500 households are in temporary accommodation,
half of those with children, costing local authorities
an absolute arm and a leg, we have got to disrupt
this terrible situation.
You cannot grow the economy unless you have homes for people
to live in and that they can afford.
Now, to your point about somebody,
you know, a developer selling on to another person
and so on, there are loopholes in this system.
We do our best to do our due diligence and to be vigilant,
but obviously we work with partners,
we work with local authorities, private developers
who have their own bottom line.
I am very focused on who gets these affordable homes.
We are doing our very best to make sure that those people that need it get it.
But there are people in the market that want to make high profits.
That's why it's been really great to see our partners, our local authorities partners, across the patch, absolutely focused on this.
And a great intervention actually from the Deputy Prime Minister, Angela Rayner.
I think it was the day before yesterday about right to buy.
Thank you very much Liz.
Right to buy.
And while my mom bought her council house
and gave her enormous security for many, many decades,
right to buy was being used as a cash cow.
And I do think the impact that's had on local authorities'
ability to house the most vulnerable,
I think that's got to stop and that's why I'm sure you'll share my pleasure in the fact that it can't be right that social
That social homes council homes are being bought for three five years and then sold on for a massive profit
Because of the right to buy and I'm pleased that they've got further
Guardrails on that so I can't answer your problem directly
I'm afraid counselor but I share with you the frustration that
There are businesses making a fast book out of housing when it should be an absolute first need for families to get on. Thank you.
Come back with a follow up.
Yes, there's probably a caveat to this because the affordable or
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:07:54
Cllr Bob Felstead - 0:07:55
discounted marketing rate is 20 % currently in the UK.
Now I actually participate in this market, I actually crowdfund the development of homes
on Granfield across the country.
Sorry Councillor, how do you contribute?
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:08:12
Cllr Bob Felstead - 0:08:14
I actually crowdfund to help some developers bridge the gap between their bank loans and
the actual amount of money they need to deliver something.
Do you want to come and work with us?
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:08:25
Cllr Bob Felstead - 0:08:27
That's such a brilliant idea, it shouldn't be needed but what a great idea, congratulations.
Well it's a great idea because we're quite proactive in terms of the
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:08:34
way we deliver things.
Cllr Bob Felstead - 0:08:37
So it's another takeaway for you, the affordable discount is 20 % now, we're building something
up in Tim Farren's neighbourhood and it's brand new homes but we worked with the local
authority there to actually set some ground rules. It was fairly
groundbreaking in terms of the houses are all being delivered 40 % off the
actual market rate, the homes are only targeted towards the people who live and
work in the area, they can't be sold to landlords, the discounts can be passed on
from generation to generation or sorry for to households. So it's clearly
achievable, the question is can the combined authority kind of promote that
thing with or make those links to developers. Thank you Councillor, now that
sounds like a really interesting idea. I'm not going to sit here and
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:09:31
say let's
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:09:32
do it because Liz will kill me because I need to understand a little bit more
about it. But Liz I wonder if there's anything technical that you could, that
you may know more about that could respond to that sort of discount, that
Liz Hunter, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:09:46
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:09:46
It sounds really interesting. Is it in West Yorkshire?
Liz Hunter, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:09:48
No, it's in the Lake District.
In the Lake District. Perhaps we could have a follow -up conversation just to see how it's working.
I'll send you some details.
Yeah, do you? That would be helpful.
I'll give you a commercial.
No, of course.
Or I can give you a background.
Yeah, sure. Okay.
Thank you.
Right, I've got Councillor Haig, then Councillor Marchington, then
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:10:07
Councillor Rontree.
So, Councillor Haig first.
Thank you. Good morning there.
I'd like to welcome your announcement of the extension to perfect the end of March
Kate Haigh - 0:10:18
But I understand there may be further plans next year, and I was if you could update us
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:10:25
Counselor thank you for raising that question it gives me the opportunity to say today. We're about to announce that the
Two -pound fare was we made the announcement a couple of weeks ago that that would be extended to March
25 and then it will rise
slightly to £2 .50, 50p lower than the national fare scheme, and that will go to
2025, December 2025. Really important that we continue to keep fares as low as
possible, whilst also reflecting that as we've seen across the piece, bus
operators pulling back routes. Now we can't sit by and say, oh look all these
cheap fares if you don't have a bus that comes to your community. So it's really
important for us to make sure we get that balance right but I'm really
pleased. We were an outlier, we were the first adopter of this back in September
2023. Government brought it in the following year. I'm really pleased that
we can still keep a forward position on low affordable fares but of course we
are wrangling some of the operators who are putting profit above people and are
pulling routes that for them are not cost effective, which is why I,
I am really clear the decision to bring buses back into public
control was the right decision because we can't be held to ransom by,
by operators. They pull a route and we then fund it. And then they,
they carry on, um, you know, taking that, taking the bottom line is,
it's not good enough. We deserve better. And this is always, of course,
part of a bigger plan, our transport plan that went out to consultation and,
and the mass transit consultation collectively nearly 5 ,000 people engaged,
the majority of them positively,
to have that plan for buses that feeds the trams with active travel as well,
that London style transport network that's affordable and reliable and green,
that helps with congestion, better air quality,
getting people out of their cars, tackling the cost of living crisis.
We are in a position where we can really deliver for the public,
but as we move to franchising and the whole of West Yorkshire will be fully franchised by 28,
we are trying our very best to keep fares low. So I do feel that's gone down well.
There's always that question about, well, look at Andy Burnham across the Pennines,
why isn't it two pounds? Just to say that both in London and in Manchester,
they have a fare box from the tram and also in London from the tubes. So they have a bit
liquidity we will be in a better position once we have a fare box from
the from mass transit so we'll have an income stream that then you can sort of
team ladle but for now we're taking a view that affordable fares are really
important but so are routes Thank You councillor.
Kate Haigh - 0:13:19
Do you want to follow up? No? Fine.
That's fine.
Right, Councillor Marchington next.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:13:27
Andrew Marchington - 0:13:39
you
you
Thank you, Councillor. Can you congratulate, Coakley's, for the work
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:14:38
that you're doing on social homes and retrofit?
Because it is so expensive and it's so intensive and you have to get the trust of the community as well.
So you've been doing a really great job. Now, for me, my approach must be surely, we should be also looking at the low hanging fruit as well as the more difficult homes to retrofit.
if we are going to hit our target of zero carbon by 2038.
Everybody's got to be on this journey with us.
Nobody can be left behind.
And that's why we developed an offer
that was for people who owned their own home.
It was for people who are landlords
and also social homes and housing associations.
I mean, anybody can be part of this,
working with us in various different ways.
Now, we understand that the economy of scale
is our opportunity because there are hundreds, well tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of homes that are potentially
within scope. So
yeah, introducing our solar, what's it called, Solar Together?
It's a residential buying scheme, run by Solar Together.
Solar Together, yeah. So it's like a reverse auction. So a community, a community can
request a quote for solar panels, but of course the economies of scale more people that do it the cheaper
It is we can guarantee that the people are installing are you know, they're registered and they're reliable and they're not cowboys
But also what we have on the other side is we have a low
Low interest loan that you can use for those solar panels and we've
It's been really pleasing to see so many people have used the whole system
But what was important to me is that not everybody wants everything.
So to be able to get people to just sort of, you know, in an approach,
coming in the water is lovely sort of thing.
If you want new windows that are double glazed, you can also apply for that.
If you want just insulation in your loft, or if you want the full monitor with a ground source heat pump and everything,
that is also available.
So we've developed this very carefully.
There's a substantial amount of money attached to it.
I'm really pleased to see government are also looking at what more they can do in the retrofit
space.
And I'm making the case to government, we are already set up, we're good to go.
Why not, you know, invest in us and we can do even more at speed.
Now the big challenge for us as a region, we've got this fantastic program, people want
it.
Have we got the skilled workforce?
This is where our challenge is.
So what is great about devolution is that we have the adult education budget is devolved to us.
So we are looking at programmes to courses to run for the retrofit skills that we're going to need at scale.
But your offer is well made. Thank you.
And we could definitely take that away about the economies of scale to do additional work with Kirklees when you're looking at social homes specifically.
Is that helpful?
Andrew Marchington - 0:18:02
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:18:10
if I may answer just to say that we are taking quite a proactive approach but Liz if you
want to just lay out the the offer so in a little bit more detail if that's
helpful chair thank you you've set out a number of things that we're doing in the
Liz Hunter, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:18:30
one -stop shop and is going to bring this together so we want we didn't want to
wait for the one -stop shop service to be set up which is why as the mayor said
we've already launched these different products the the the collective buying
scheme as the mayor's just set out we've tried it to pilot almost and to
understand whether there would be interest and it's really pleasing to see
that there has been over 4 ,000 registrations for interest. Now that
obviously won't translate into actual numbers of how many homes will have the
solar panels because if you go through each next step of the process you know
people get a bit more information and then we'll drop out but we I think the
interest is there which is which is brilliant so I think we would now want
to look at what are the other things that we could do in that space so are
are other things that we could do a collective buying scheme for.
And also maybe targeted at certain sectors as well.
So whilst we want to do it across the piece,
we know that, for example, private landlords
have a slightly different perspective than maybe
homeowners.
So we are really trying to segment the market as well
to try and understand what different products might
be needed for different areas.
And I think as well as the mayor is saying,
we are working with government because we
have got the next round of, it's called Social Housing
Decarbonization Fund as was.
It's now called Warm Homes.
We're about to put a bid into government for the next round of that.
So kind of fingers crossed that we get some further money from what you've seen already
that we've put into social homes.
But as you rightly say, the one stop shop is an opportunity for everybody to have a
degree of service.
That's about to go out to procurement and we'll be up and running next year.
Thank you.
But if I may also say, Chair, that we're not being tardy with our own buildings either.
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:20:07
So putting solar panels on bus stations, we're looking at our own buildings, how can we make
them greener as well. It's a massive effort, we have to approach
this as if it is actually an emergency and you know deliver at speed
you know deliver at speed for what is in our gift.
right thank you chair and thank you very good to see you again I'd like to take
you back to the theme that's okay you use the word disrupting in terms
Andy Rontree - 0:20:51
of
Disrupting the market in your opening remarks and that was interesting. It's not
Disrupting is not something I've heard
Used against the housing market so previously in terms of policy and that's probably that's an interesting one
I wanted to ask you particular whether you have a view on
different models of ownership
There's obviously that the big ones that
I take up most of the market obviously owner -occupier private renter sector local authority housing Association and
Within that sort of certainly the economic power is to a great extent vested in that launch house house builders and
Indeed with the large landlords isn't it? I mean, I've become aware from
sitting on the Planning Committee and leads the increasing this importance of the build to rent model where a
a lot a developer will set out to build a usually a complex of flats with the
intention and so structured so that it will always remain in the ownership of a
single landlord and a couple of developments haven't necessarily started
off that way but ended up as being sold on their build to rent terms and so do
you have a sort of sense of a hierarchy of what how you'd like them housing to
develop in terms of these models and what preferences you might have and
whether there's any way of leveling the playing field to try and
redistribute the power between different sectors. There's other options
I think like different models of co -living and co -ops that are
unlikely to be large -scale but also worth considering and support. Can you
bit about that. Thank you. That's definitely a dinner party question because it's quite
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:22:48
it's quite theoretical isn't it about about hierarchy of priorities. For me as
I've explained affordability is really important because that's our crisis
facing us. When it comes to disruption one of our biggest challenges was
viability so we would we when we're looking at Brownfield we couldn't build
the homes that we wanted to build because of viability issues in Bradford
and Kirklees for example it's easier in Leeds because of land value. What can we
do that is innovative to maybe bring schemes together that one in Leeds
comes together with one in Bradford so the viability is you know you bring the
projects together and suddenly you've got a balance between unviable and
viable and you can get to a common ground where you can start work. What's
really important for me is that new type of housing where lots of young people
nowadays don't ever feel like they want to buy, they want to rent, but they
want to rent affordably. They want to be able to move around where the jobs are,
where there's going to be four or five careers, there's a new
way of looking at homes and lots of people, certainly lots of my young
colleagues here, are all sharing but they want homes where they can share, that
they have space to work from home if they wish.
So a place with a garden, so there's more quality of life,
I think, that is a factor for young people.
Also, for the other end of our lifespan,
focusing on dementia -ready housing
was also very important to me.
That's why I set up the task force.
And it's very pleasing to see that some
of the recommendations of the dementia -ready task force
Have actually now been implemented by housing associations and some builders. So it is about the leadership
So I'm not blowing everything up. I'm not disrupting in that way
But I think it's about the prioritization for a region that this is the type of developer
We want to work with if you're that type of developer, you're welcome. If you're somebody that's going to build boxes
That are ugly and that are you know, it's eye wateringly expensive
then you're gonna be less of a friend to me because what's important to me is affordability and
Also a quality of life for people where they can also find well -being
And I have to say my my youngest is in rented accommodation at the moment and she just moved to it a tiny flat
1 ,100 pounds a month on her own and it smells of chips and and there's noise all the time
You think this is no way of living. It's horrible
But these are the choices facing our youngsters.
And how is their mental well -being going to be healthy
when every day they're faced with all this stuff
that's not of their making?
So it's not a very sort of high level response
to what you're saying, but I would say,
just to reiterate, affordability is the key.
There will be people who want beautiful five bedroom homes
and those need to be built as well.
and we need to renovate our heritage buildings and to have that
mixed offer because we need people to move out two bedrooms to go into three
and four for those families to move from one bedroom into two so we need the
fuller picture but affordability is currently my priority.
Andy Rontree - 0:26:14
Thank you just briefly, thanks for that, that was very very interesting. I get the
impression from what you've said that you're perhaps less worried about the
build to rent concept because you can say it can see sort of evidence of it
working I had a bit of a fear from the discussions we have that this model had
the potential to shut a lot of people out of home ownership but as you say if
that's you do see you do think the view that it's meeting at need just one last
thing you've used the word affordability a lot and I think in policy terms the
word affordability has to do some pretty heavy lifting because it's now it's all
over the place and I think public are inclined to be cynical about it because
it's I do I mean 80 % of market rate is only affordable to some people I'm just
wondering if you think there's any other language that we could get in there that
encourage the use of that might avoid the cynicism. That's a very good exam
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:27:20
question. Are you happy Councillor if I take that away and we can mull it over with the
team? Because you're right that for one family it is affordable, for another
family it's absolutely out of reach and that's why they need a council flat or a
social home because those rents are genuinely affordable but that's
why we have to move at speed to get more council homes built and I'm really
pleased to see the government wants to do that as well when we've had decades
of lack of interest.
Matt Edwards - 0:27:55
Thank you chair, thanks Mayor. I'm gonna stick on the housing angle for the time
being. I do have some transport stuff but I'll save that for later. I think it's
like it's good to hear the focus on the skills gap with like net zero homes
because it is such a and it is that is actually fundamentally the problem and
that's one of the things keeping costs up so I'm I'm to the the one -stop shop
as well two or three years ago I was looking at heat pump and actually trying
to find the information and devices someone that is quite clued up on green
things was almost impossible so actually seeing that as being a big part of your
pledge is actually really good. I just want to know how you're going to get that out there
because there's a lot of people now I've got a heat pump apparently everyone thinks I'm
the expert at it, everyone wants my advice and I'm like and I'm just like it sits there
but I think that is actually really important as a lot of people won't want that and but
it's not necessarily the the issue of fitting it because it also then comes to the maintenance.
So um I don't know if for people that don't have a heat pump like the cost of service
and annual service on a heat pump is twice that of a gas boiler that's a standard. So
but it's actually making sure we've got the skills
because that's a really important trade
for a lot of young people that want to trade.
And how you're gonna kind of build that up
at the scale that's needed.
And then the slight kind of caveat to that is
the new affordable homes,
because it's great we're focusing on refit,
but how are we gonna make sure
that the new affordable homes are being built
to net zero standard as well?
Because when I looked through the report,
that was one thing that was missing.
Because building a house to net zero standard
are as close to net zero as we can do is a lot cheaper than retrofitting it later down
the line and that's something that is going to be needed.
So yeah, I'd just like to hear a bit more about that if that's okay.
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:29:40
Well thank you for your leadership, that you're walking the walk, not just talking the talk,
and I would, if I may, challenge the committee to also think about their own home and to
think are they bringing in any remediations or changes to their own home to help us tackle
climate emergency and I'm saying this to myself as well and I live in a weavers
cottage that is impossible to retrofit probably but I do think we all have our
own role to play so thank you for doing doing that. Now I talking to plumbers and
people in the trades the biggest problem that we faced over the last 10 years
is the lack of political direction and it was is it coming in is it not was
this schemes ended, that green funders ended, why am I bothering when my order
book is full for just plumbing, straightforward plumbing and gas boilers,
why am I bothering training? So now I really do feel that with our leadership,
with the leadership from the centre, that businesses are understanding that this
is the future and this is where the work is going to be. It's sort of like with
electricians and engineers and cars and EV vehicles, you know, to have that other
set of skill set is really important.
So that's why I'm working really closely
with the College of Building to see
how we can develop the courses that
are modular, that are quick for businesses to upskill
their current workforce, but also have those apprentices
coming in with the understanding that this is the sector
that they're going into.
And I didn't know that a ground source heat pump was twice
the price for servicing, which feels carpet -bagging, actually,
unless it takes you twice as long?
Absolutely not.
Uh -huh.
It takes us a long time.
Blimey.
Well, maybe it's something for us to pick up on.
But I think I'm going to come to you, Liz, on this,
because trying to get the balance right between the time
that we need to escalate the retrofit and the workforce,
what we don't want is to let down the customer.
Over -promise, but under -deliver.
Liz.
Thank you.
really great points and we've been trying to take some learnings from other
Liz Hunter, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:31:57
places who started off on this journey in terms of providing that advice and
and also working with the UK Infrastructure Bank as well they've been
really helpful in giving us some challenge in terms of how we've been
developing the one -stop shop approach and they have exactly as you said they
they have been trying to caution us in trying to go too quickly so that you
don't kind of raise the expectations too much and then people are left because
once you have a bad experience sometimes,
it then takes a while to come back round, doesn't it?
So I think that we definitely have the ambition,
but we also need to make sure that it's done in a way
that the right skills and the supply chain is there.
So we've been careful in terms of how
we're going to do the procurement in terms
of the expectations from our managing agent who's
going to be running the one -stop shop in what they're
going to be able to deliver.
But I think as we've set out, I think
if we can give that certainty to say we're investing,
government is also investing, and so therefore
the stop -start nature that's happened before,
hopefully we won't have looking into the future.
But I think in terms of your initial question
was also around how we're going to get the advice out there,
because there's a lot of advice in there.
When you Google, lots of things pop up,
and we are going to be taking specialist communication
advice about how we make sure that our advice can reach
the people who need it.
And just to reassure as well that we've also
been doing some work with different groups,
because recognizing that certain groups, for example, people
with English as a second language or groups
who are of a certain age who might be less inclined
to use the internet, how we might be able to talk to them.
Because it's really interesting that there's still quite,
I think, a lot of misinformation out there
about a lot of this technology and even with social retrofit,
we are finding that a number of tenants,
even though this is free to them,
they're saying no to it being put into their homes
for lots of different reasons.
And so there's actually a lot of social barriers
and communication barriers that we need to work on
as well as the technology issues that you've set out as well
so recognizes a lot of, there's a lot of challenge
but hopefully to say that we are trying in different ways
to make sure we have a longer term plan
so that we can not just be in this,
what we're gonna do next year,
but have that in place.
Hope that helped.
If I could just also add that government are saying
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:34:25
that they've now interested in modular for affordable
and obviously it's gonna be greener.
There's a challenge there
because modular companies have gone bankrupt.
How do we incentivize the market?
And this is obviously a government decision.
incentivize the market to build affordable modular. It's a challenge but
we are in the space where we're happy to try it, we're happy to work with
developers, we'll pilot stuff and we'll work with government to try and you know
solve this knotty problem.
Mm -hmm.
Matt Edwards - 0:35:08
Yeah, I think the kind of the,
the other thing that I mean, obviously,
it's great hearing this, one of the,
I suppose, minor consensus,
obviously, we've talked about the ambition
and what's needed for the target,
but the scale of it is, well, at the scale of it's massive.
Like, the weight in this as a council house in my ward,
alone is and two and a half thousand households and that's one Ward in
Bradford and there are two and a half thousand if not more social hound and
council homes in my ward as it stands and so this kind of numbers that we're
talking about we're gonna have to find a way of ramping that up and obviously
that's gonna require massive government support and massive sort of support so I
suppose it's wanting to know how you're gonna like ramp up that ambition whilst
at the same time trying to balance, basically not trying to, doing it wrong and then scarring
people, it creates a bit of a bad reputation doesn't it? Because that sort of happened
with solar all the time, that's one of the things that puts people off. Solar took so
long and then there were unreputable companies coming into the market, people have heard
the horror stories and people are still living with that and heat pumps are part of that,
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:36:21
even insulation as well. I think you're right but it's also about educating the
the tenant so that when you've had this work done then don't just put all your
wet washing on the heater and you get mold and then you get
condensation so it's also making sure that everybody understands how to live
in these homes that are going to you know work for you and your family.
You
Council character then council merit
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:36:54
Thanks, Joe, thanks for coming along this morning and can I just go
Geraldine Carter - 0:36:57
back to the the housing issue that that
councillor Fostert raised
Surely we can tighten planning up enough to stop that sort of thing happening with the affordability
element of building sites and
By saying that they can't do this it has to be done through this system a long time ago in Calderdale
We used to do it through housing associations to ensure that we have the in perpetuity
But that was done under the rural legislation that was in place at the time well surely we can actually use that legislation to actually
Make sure that with the the other type of housing that we can do that as well and just on on
building affordable housing it's a long time ago well not a long time ago well I
guess it is it's over ten years ago maybe a lot of councils in Lincolnshire
did a scheme whereby they they actually became the developer and they were small
the small district councils they actually use small pieces of land in
rural areas and actually became the developer so that instead of the profit
going to a developer it was actually going to them and that was particularly
on the the low cost to buy housing because then that meant that they could bring it in at that 40 % cost of what it would
Normally be and they can then put the caveat on that it was in perpetuity
Under that I'm sure that legislation will still be in place somewhere along the line in rural areas in particular
So I just wondered whether that could be transferred and whether that could actually
Be uppermost in our planners minds. We need to make sure we can do anything really within certain bounds
planning by restricting what they do by putting conditions on by saying this is what you will do because that is absolutely
Outrageous that all those homes have been sold to a loan to a London property market
It is should not be happening and surely we can do something about that
I have a follow -up question on transport if that's possible
Thank you. Thank you for that and obviously would be helpful if we had that
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:38:59
the evidence of that happening rather than it being just hearsay would be good to if you would supply that to us
It'd be good to have that. Thank you regarding
Planning I think we're in a great position now
Obviously, this is a decision for the government
But you have somebody making this decision driving government with the with the support of mayors
We've been in these roundtables with ministers. We've been making the case about the challenges for our region
They these targets that government have setters are incredible stretch targets targets that we have never hit
I'm in a good year
So we are going to do something we're gonna have to do something different if we're gonna hit those targets that they've given us
I really see that leadership from the deputy prime minister and heard a
personal commitment to tackle homelessness and to tackle affordable housing she is
absolutely laser focused on doing everything within her gift and that is why
Planning was discussed very early on in the new
Tenure of a labor government not just from Angela Rayner but from Rachel Reeves as well because she understood
You can't grow the economy of people of nowhere affordable to live. So I'm
Very happy to talk to you further about planning
But you'll know better than me because you're a counselor and you're you're you're in those those meetings about planning decisions
It is not in my gift to tell Colterdale where to put houses or what to do with developers.
That's absolutely up to you.
But to your point about innovation around using public money, it is something that we
have discussed that how can we turbocharge our housing delivery?
Is this a space that we as a combined authority want to step into?
Obviously it is not risk -free and you could end up having your fingers burnt and it is
public money, but it is something that we have discussed previously and if you
have evidence of where it really does work, um, do share it with us.
Yes. So while we're on housing, obviously the government's, uh, planning,
uh, proposed changes are going to help get planning permissions in place,
but what those reforms do not deal with is the problem of,
the big housing
companies who have an interest in maintaining high
housing prices
Rationing how fast they roll out
Developments and all the rest of it. I wondered if you'd had any
Cllr Dave Merrett - 0:41:31
discussions as part of your discussions with the government
Whether you have been raising that side of the equation so that we end the develop
the housing companies whip hand
on this. Thank you and certainly in York I know housing is a huge
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:41:49
issue because
the cost of a house is often way beyond a starter salary and I know that your
Mayor David Scaethor has raised this issue with me as a particular problem for York
and North Yorkshire. As to developers sitting on timescales of delivery that
That is part of the issue that we're hoping to change the mindset of partnership work
with developers and housing associations.
We've just got to get into delivery mode.
But I would also say the challenge was laid down to councils and planning departments
in councils that just because it feels to you like it's green belt and it's green shrubbery
or it's a disused petrol station but you don't want housing there, you know, you've
got to come with us. The local authorities and their planning teams and
the public have to understand we need a revolution in house building and we
can't have our arm around our patch but expect homes to be built elsewhere. So
we've all got to do a bit of heavy lifting here. It's not just us as a
combined authority but local authorities, communities, house builders, housing
associations, cooperatives, everybody's got to put their shoulder to the wheel
to get us to where we want to be.
What, Councillor Maric?
I have a separate question.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:43:19
No, no, transfer always the wrong way, that's fine.
In that case, we've got Councillor Rhodes.
Thank you, Chair.
Hi, Tracey, Better Ways from Wakefield.
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 0:43:33
I'm very pleased to hear about the decision to build to rent.
It's long overdue because as you all know, the previous government didn't fund council
houses as they were then, so a lot had to go over to an arms length company, which has
happened in Wakefield, and I'm sure that this happened elsewhere.
I think going back to Bob's point earlier on, it is a national issue in terms of buying
up properties including houses for leaseholders. I know that the government at the moment is
looking into this problem but that's actually causing hardship to those people where they
have their maintenance fees just upped by 350%, £725 to put a lock in for instance.
So I know there's a lot of this going on but we need to have something done to actually
look into how this is happening with companies buying up this land, buying up properties
and then setting up a sub -company to do the maintenance at extortionate costs.
So I'm hoping that what's been happening and the announcement of it going to take a term of office
to see to this is going to happen quicker than that because we have a lot of people up and down the country
who are in dire straits because of the increase in maintenance costs.
One other issue in terms of housing, it's good to know that we've got a plan.
Obviously the skills shortage has been something that's gone on for years and has actually prevented the number of houses that the WICA could have retrofitted from happening.
So I'm hoping we're going to catch up on that.
Matt has mentioned about heat pumps.
Has there been any consideration given to where we build or we get builders to work
for us to do the build to rent on what's called a district heating scheme?
We had those years ago and they were very affordable to everybody.
Obviously they're a lot greener now in terms of emissions and I think that's something
that would be worthwhile considering for those estates where we're going to have the bill to rent.
The other part of the affordability obviously is in developments at the moment,
private developers on a certain size of land are actually supposed to give over a percentage of those houses for social housing.
And until we get the planning regulation as Geraldine has said sorted what has been happening up and down
I'm sure in not just wait for you
But across the patch is that they come back as a developer and say we can't afford to give over those
We're not making a profit. We're not
Can you change the percentage of land?
Exactly, so I'm hoping that when we do get to grips with the situation in terms of planning which the regulations state now
we've got to apply to. We don't have any powers as councils. We have to go by some
decisions and go to appeal and that costs money on councils as you know Tracy.
But I do think that the plan going forward is something that I think we've
all waited for a long time and I hope that when we're looking at the
possibility of looking at modulars to deal with a shortage that somewhere out
there. We're going to have somebody who's going to come up with a plan.
They did it in the war years. We can do it again,
but of a better nature and a better standard for people at least to have a home.
Thanks Tracy.
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:47:19
Thank you. And can I say this committee is always, um, uh,
illuminating and exceptional in the,
in the decades of knowledge that people have accrued over their times as
Councillors and it must feel very frustrating that we're back here again for
Councillors that have been in post for many years. So there's lots that I would
agree with on maintenance etc. Obviously that is not necessarily in my gift, it's a
private company but just your district heating. In Wakefield you'll know that at
the at the Coal Mining Museum there's an innovative project looking at how we can
use the warm water in the underneath the ground to heat
the local community. We've got leads pipes.
Sturtan Park and Ride uses excess electricity from the
solar panels for the community. That is an area of
deprivation nearby that is surely the future and I know
that Kirkleys and Bradford both have small schemes on
on district heat source. That's the future and that's
what we're looking at, we see great examples
across our patch, but absolutely in lockstep with you.
And as we've touched on the modular,
but yeah, I agree with you,
that there are ways to do this surely,
and we see great examples across the world,
and we are a place where innovation thrives.
So the opportunity is there,
so any developers in modular watching this live stream,
you are welcome to come and join us.
I've been working with a lot of young people recently and we're
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:48:59
looking at public transport
and the perceptions of why people aren't using it because one of the things we need to be
doing is encouraging people to get that virtuous loop, what you call the fair box, that's a
new thing I'll take away, I've got fair box in my mind now.
A lot of the discussions I've been having recently is feelings of unsafety, people not
feeling safe, particularly young women, and that's having an impact on school attendance,
It's actually causing people to excessive car use,
particularly in the location where
I'm working, which is gridlock for several hours a day.
So is there something we can look to in terms
of engaging young people?
So the theme running through everything here about everything
we're trying to do.
You've got to take people with you.
You've got to co -produce.
You've got to have people with you.
And this is where we're at with the buses.
We need to be getting the views of young people about what
would it take for them to feel safer on the buses so that they're able to make
more use of them. The clear feedback I'm getting from young people I'm working
with is buses are not for them and that worries me because I've got relatives in
London whose kids use the buses all the time. There might be another reason for that
but particularly on that and I would also pass on the experience. You're
talking about modular homes and the history of homes. I think we need to be
using language is much clearer about social housing, language
that people understand.
We're talking about building council houses, aren't we?
Because that's what the need is.
I agree with Matt.
The casework for a councilor at the moment is heartbreaking.
There is no accommodation in Bradford.
I'll say that again.
There is no accommodation in Bradford.
My mother was fortunate enough to get in 1947
to get a tin hoofs, they called it in our growth,
a modular house, it's still there.
And in 1905, Fred Willie Jowett built the first council housing
estate in my ward in Bradford.
Again, that's still there.
But I think the bit that you're talking about,
how do we deal with the retrofitting and everything,
we've got to work with people on why that's needed
and why they will benefit from it.
Just coming in and doing things to people
doesn't get you very far.
And I would make a plea at NFT passes to their participation schemes and
approaches because one of the things that's gone through my long period of
council, I'm in favor of council housing, but I'm always struggling with council or
social housing, tenant management relations. There's a missing step there,
which I think the cooperative approach might help with. So my first questions to
you there but I mean I think the bit that bothers me at moment what's
impeding our economy and many of the other things is why people don't feel
they can use the buses. Thank you very much councillor and it's something that
was really at the forefront of my mind when I was trying to get people back on
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:52:00
buses with affordable tickets is that women and girls were saying well they
didn't feel safe that's why we brought in the M card had a safer travel app you
you can access the app and you can tell us where you feel unsafe and when we
cluster that information,
we can then deploy our 15 police and community safety officers that we funded
a million pounds a year. Um, that's a year, isn't it Simon? Yeah.
For a 15 as I say with a Sergeant,
they are dedicated to bosses and boss stations.
That is a breakthrough I think because you see somebody in a high vis,
you feel a bit more reassured, don't you? Um,
So you can tell us where you feel unsafe and then we have the resources to then deploy into those clusters
lack of safety
But I also think it has to start at a young generation
Families need to get out of the habit of running their kids a mile down to to school
So we've brought in the 80p one mile like a hopper ticket for young people
and also we've invested a fair chunk of cash with
What's the organisation? Safer Streets? No. Walk to School. Do you know what I'm talking about?
It's a programme where we fund the resources to encourage young people and their families to walk to school.
And it's been very successful actually in Bradford. I did a presentation in one of the schools where the parents were saying not only did they feel like they were doing the right thing,
it was chance for a chat with their child,
and also it protects their child from, you know,
well it gets their child used to the open air,
talking to people along the way, you know,
just having a bit of quiet time with their parent
in readiness for school and preparing them for school,
rather than just crazy driving kicked out the car
and off you go.
So I think it's a long -term project as well as short -term,
But rest assured, particularly Bradford City of Culture,
I want everybody to be able to get
to these amazing cultural events by bus.
And being able to traverse Bradford.
You can see something at five o 'clock in the afternoon
and then go see something at seven,
but know there's a bus to take you home at 10.
So this is the problem with bus companies
cutting services early morning and late into the evening.
It was very pleasing that first have brought in
the 24 -7 bus in Leeds and there's also one in Bradford. We've paid for the
super loop, the Bradford super loop that is reliable and moves around between
like hospital, supermarket and that's that's a new one that also I think I've
seen has come about in Leeds as well. So we're doing our bet, our bit and our best
but I think there is definitely more to do. What young people were telling us
When we did our safer parks research is the safety numbers
So there will be a critical mass if you get more women and girls using the bosses more women and girls feel safe
Yes, so we just have to sort of front load our interventions to make sure the bosses are packed full of women and girls
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:55:16
So what I'm going back against people who've asked question before but
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 0:55:20
on a different subject
so I've got councillor Edwards, councillor Carter and councillor Merritt who have expressed
an issue on transport so councillor Edwards first.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:55:34
Yes so transport and buses yes the £2 .50 announcement I mean that was actually one
Paul Godwin - 0:55:39
of the questions coming in was what the plan was for £2 is which you answered before the
Matt Edwards - 0:55:43
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:55:46
meeting which was helpful. I'm sorry. Yeah the most first I can't like I mean it's
said already like how important that's been and I'm actually having my social
leading on that has actually been a really really good thing and so it's
something I'm grateful for getting the clarity going forward and because it is
Matt Edwards - 0:55:59
getting people onto the buses I know people are using the buses because it's
simpler and cheaper and so the first kind of quick question on that is how
we're going to make sure that 250 cap doesn't become the 250 flat fare because
the downside of it is shorter journeys are becoming more expensive because some
bus companies have just made two pound the default fare and so that's the first
question. The superloop again my ward serves a superloop and again the
importance of that for people in Homewood particularly who half the people
don't have access to a car they can there's no way of getting to a
supermarket from Homewood without walking 45 minutes of getting a taxi now
they've got four or five supermarkets they can get to within 15
minutes on the bus so that in itself has actually been quite transformational and
so that's positive and one thing that really did disappoint me on the report
is the lack of reference to interchange.
I know I've given Simon and his team quite a hard time
since I've started on scrutiny about interchange.
So unfortunately, I'm showing that load out there.
As we're moving towards public control,
it is really important that these sorts of things are right.
Because at the moment, the West Yorkshire Mind Authority
is the face of the bus station.
So when people see it go wrong, it
worries people when the West Yorkshire Mind Authority
wanting more control. And some of that does actually fall to, I suppose, personal leadership
on that because you are the face of the command authority. And one thing I felt quite frustrated
and a bit disappointed about is, I suppose, the physical, the lack of physical presence in yourself
on that, like to my knowledge, not going to Nelson Street, for example, and speaking to passengers.
Because I know you do go out and about and see bus users all over the place, but it would have
nice to see you at Nelson Street meeting residents who are struggling and have been struggling
just to listen and show that human connection.
Because that is one of your strengths as an individual, isn't it, the human connection.
But it's important we're doing that in the good and the bad.
So how I want to frame the question, I suppose, instead of just having that as a criticism,
I want to frame the question is do you feel like there's anything you've personally learnt in terms of how you'd handle this in the
Situation again and what you do differently
Thank You councillor and Ralf do you want to turn your mic off?
Cllr Ralph Berry - 0:58:19
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:58:21
and I think that's a good challenge very happy to hear that because
No one was to know concrete would fall from the ceiling
So, you know
This was something that came at us and has preoccupied me for many months and has held back on our ambitions to talk about
the good stuff that we want to talk about. So, yeah, a couple of couple of your points, um, around cost really important. When I was campaigning for my reelection, that was one thing that was coming up on the door time and time again.
The two -pound mayor's fairs impacted people's family budgets and was really important. I'm really pleased to hear about the Superloop and Homewood in particular was a community that I want to support.
and that's why we brought Realize to the community center there and opened up the community center to run bus driver training program.
One hundred and fifty drivers have come off that program.
I'm really pleased there will be many of those people who have been generationally unemployed who now have an income that they can then support their families.
So it's really important when we talk about inclusive economy, inclusive growth, what we do with our interventions and which communities we want to serve.
To your point about human connection, because I use public transport and because I commute,
I am the face, as you say, of the compound authority.
I am available for everyone to come and talk to me.
And if you were to be with me for a day, you would see that people feel very comfortable
coming to tell me what is going on in their lives and what I'm not doing right and what
I am doing right.
So I did visit Bradford during the difficult patch.
I when I visited I was very aware that our colleagues were standing outside in the cold all day long in the rain often
And we had to escalate
comfort
Facilities for them so it's not just about the public is our colleagues who are out in the rain trying to guide people
And what what have I learned?
Well, we what I've learned we've actually addressed and one is that we have an aging set of assets
that we have patched up over the years,
but do we have complete understanding
of the vulnerabilities of those assets?
Now, the interchange, as you know,
is a unique and quite frankly ridiculous design
that it is a slab over a void
and all the buses go over the slab.
So that immediately sends the red flags
and the alarm bells, doesn't it, in the design itself.
So I have tasked Simon and the team
We've given me a new option for a fantastic European style new bus station for Bradford because frankly Bradford deserves it
We will take the advice of the surveyors
That have been very thorough
very
Detailed to protect the public. I couldn't open it unless I was completely 100 %
reassured that it was safe
and then have a
Future plan for what we're going to do for the people of Bradford because they can't continue
you know, the interchange being patched up.
We've allocated money for the apron as you come out.
You might see that it's now open.
We're going to make that lovely.
So as you come into the city center of Bradford,
it's a really nice experience,
because currently it's rubbish.
And so we've got money allocated to that.
But rest assured, every day is a school day for me.
I've spent 30 years as an actor,
and then went into politics not knowing a thing.
and I've learned as I've gone along,
and now being mayor, in the three years I've been your mayor
and what a privilege it's been,
every day I learn something more.
And could we have done things more differently?
Could we have better communications?
Absolutely.
But I just felt if there was nothing to say,
we shouldn't just go out on the airwaves saying nothing
and just saying we're still waiting for surveys,
we're still waiting for surveys.
I just felt that we just need to talk to the public
when we have something to say.
But maybe on reflection, people needed reassurance
that we were still aware of the problem.
Also, I do go to Bradford all the time,
and the public tell me exactly what they think.
And I do my own ex.
I do my own blue sky.
I do my own Instagram.
People talk to me directly about their concerns.
And I do feel relatively plugged in to people's concerns.
But if there's something that you want to raise privately
with me, you must.
But Simon, is there anything that I've missed there?
Thank you, Matt.
I'm aware of the fact that on the agenda,
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:02:46
So we have a summary of the workshop, of course, that we had recently with scrutiny committee
members as well, which I hope members found very useful.
It certainly felt like a really engaged session that we had.
As you rightly point out, there are a number of really important lessons that have been
learned through the past 12 months around Bradford
and that real challenge that there has been for us as well that
it has been a necessary distraction of resource at a time when
we're also looking to move forward on those very big transformational
elements that we'll be aware of. I think as we've spent quite some time
talking about in the workshop session,
in addition to us continuing to build with the really valuable input from local members including yourself, Councillor Edwards,
on our local information systems. The most fundamental lesson, and as I explained to Emerson in the workshop,
that there is a very clear action plan in this regard is to establish a very
thorough asset management strategy within the organization going forward so
that we are very very clear in terms of the state of our assets and how they
therefore need to become a priority within our capital spending.
I'm conscious of the time getting close to, we did say the mayor would be released around about
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:04:29
o 'clock and I know that. Chair I'm in the hostage programme or something, what's going on?
So Councillor Carf, then Councillor Merrick. Thank you chair. I'm pleased to see the
Geraldine Carter - 1:04:46
the program that you're putting in place for skills and work and health and
further education but the link with with public transport is rural areas because
if you live in some rural areas
young people
couldn't access any of this because they don't have any buses to be able to get to something at the right time of day and
it is a real problem and
not just the fact that buses don't operate. A lot of pay for services as you've said previously
the operators pick and choose when they're going to operate this service. So one particular service, there's a bus at 20 past 7
and there isn't another one 10 to 10
Well, you don't need to have a new level in something or other to know that actually that's no good to anybody
Is it if you want to if you want in young people runs that counselor first?
Need you ask
And so, you know young people mums taking children to school
Anybody wanting to access a health provision to the doctors for a morning surgery?
You know things like this are just impossible and a lot of the pay for services in where I live
Actually stop it now at e -town and the last bus is six o 'clock seven o 'clock
Which then that means that nobody can access anything after you know it at further education or even working in evening
I have somebody who is a security guard and he finishes work at eight o 'clock
He can no longer get home without getting a taxi because the nearest bus takes him three miles away from home
Now these sorts of things need to be looked at and addressed if we're going to move forward with your mass transit because
There are little things in there that are really problematic for people accessing
Accessing anything really if you live in a rural area is very difficult besides gritting
But that's another story
We won't bombard you with that one
It's bad enough in Colderdale at the minute without anybody else getting bombarded with it
The other thing is and and I'm pleased that you've extended the two pounds fifty
But have you looked at what the cost would be for that extension and actually where you envisage the the cost being met in
the coming budget for the
next year
Thank You councillor. Yes, of course. We were waiting for the
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:07:07
allocation from government 36 .1 million
for our
slice of the
a recent announcement and then we've divvied that up. I think it's, um,
11, uh, and then young people 11 and then there's, um,
12 left for roots and also, uh,
some flexibility in case the numbers of people traveling, uh,
escalate because we have to subsidize it. So we want to make sure that we can,
we can afford the, our ambitions. Now, of course,
we've got the spring budget coming up and the boss bill. So we are, um,
Extending the 250 to December 2025,
because we will then know more about the financial
circumstances, because I really believe Lou Haig is
the Secretary of State for Transport,
move fast and fix things is her motto,
and I think she has a vision for buses across the country.
And we will know more about her vision as we go forward.
And to your point about connectivity,
This is why we made the decision to bring bosses back into public control because the boss companies are playing fast and loose
With the timetable. However, the challenge is to you a challenge back
You will be in your community and you will see an empty boss go through your community every day of the week
We have got to get people to use the boss because if you don't use it, you will lose it. So
Encourage all of you as colleagues in this endeavor to do think about using the buses if you don't already
I think that's covered anything. Is there anything you wanted to add on the funding?
Yeah, certainly
I was just gonna pick up the point and I'll capture the details with
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:08:52
you afters council part with the particular service so that we can
Follow up with with the operator and but the point that you make mera around
that the shift franchising is fundamental in this regard.
So whilst we tender a series of bus services,
it is an incredibly expensive and bureaucratic process
that we have to go through at the moment
to monitor the performance of those services.
Under franchising, that changes
because we set contract conditions for the network
in terms of in terms of availability of all operating data so we will know
straightaway whether a service has served or not that that does not apply
unfortunately under the arrangements that we have at the moment and the point
that you make is absolutely right now it's like oh so if we're stretching
limited public funds to put what what at best is a skeleton service out there and
and then one of those operations doesn't take place,
that is effectively a service that has then disappeared
for the day.
So we'll certainly capture the information,
but it's a fundamental element in terms of Francesc,
which comes on to the point around funding.
So for a number of years now,
Frankly, for the 25 years that I've worked in public transport, local authorities continue
to face a challenge where at any one moment in time we have more access to capital than
we do revenue funding.
And that's a real challenge in the context of establishing an effective network across
the city region.
And it's also very difficult for the public to understand, isn't it?
Because at one moment we're talking about spending very large capital sums on initiatives
like mass transit and at the same time they can't understand quite right you
well why can't you just put a bus down my street that they're different funding
sources of course is is the challenge and we're working very hard now with
officials in the department as this work is taking place to review policies
around around bus to really look to make this point that the fundamental at the
defunded to provide services in the first place
Council did you have a question about skills?
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:11:29
It's only about young people being access being able to access it when
Geraldine Carter - 1:11:34
they haven't got public transport to be able to get to access it
Because it's a catch -22, but just to come back on the on the bus thing and the fun. I mean I've sat on
Transport committee so I a while ago, so I did pick up on I wasn't aware
I don't think members of the public will be aware unless they've changed it that bus companies assess that whether a bus service is
A route is is viable
Not as you and I would do it over a year or over a month or over a week or over a quarter
Over it over individual each service each each
Particular bus so if a bus runs at six o 'clock if that bus is not viable
Then they want rid of it because it's not a viable service. This is bonkers
They need to be doing it over a period of time and that needs to be stopped
They can't do it over each individual service because that's an impossibility to to operate into it
I mean no matter where you live
So I would that will be a plea if you can manage to stop them doing that stupid thing
But you know that will do when you when you've changed how you're going to form them
Yes, which no doubt will change it and just another plate little plea for me living around the Yorkshire Lancashire boat
Can you please persuade Andy Burnham to let me use his tram with my bus pass?
Well, you're my kind of woman
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:12:53
Straight talking and ask for what you want
On just on young people we've we approved at the Combined Authority 100 ,000 pounds for
apprentices for three months in their apprenticeship to have free travel
So to enable them to get to their apprenticeship,
to give them a consistency,
to make sure they don't drop out because of lack of funds.
And to your point about Andy Burnham,
whilst it was quite frivolous,
I think the opportunity for us as mayors
to work together in an integrated transport plan
is really great and very,
it's quite irritating for me in Slough it
to see the B network,
I'm using the B network to get to Mars,
I'm like, this is really irritating,
because these buses are lovely.
And I've got bus envy.
But I think that integration, particularly
in South Yorkshire and York and North Yorkshire,
we can definitely do much more, can't we?
And I think that's where the future of devolution
is going to take us.
We are all on the journey to bringing buses back
into public control.
We're just in, you know, we're at different stages.
We are talking collectively about how we procure at scale,
because we'll all be wanting EV buses,
where are we gonna find them, who are we gonna go to,
what's the order of priorities.
So I agree with you that we should be working
more closely together.
It's a minute.
Thank you.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:14:28
Welcome very much what's going on
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:14:31
in terms of franchising and particularly on page 19,
the objectives that you've got in terms of rolling it out.
Particular question in terms of franchising
is about cross -border services.
They obviously apply in a number of different directions.
There are some quite important ones at East,
through York, serve the Yorkshire coast,
the coastline services.
And one that how you are thinking of addressing
those cross -boundary services as part of this process. Thank you. Well certainly
in our transport plan that's when we're looking at obviously what we're going to
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:15:12
deliver for our region but as I've just said to Councillor Carter the
opportunity for then the cross -border collaboration to enable the people of
West Yorkshire to enjoy the North Yorkshire coastline how do we make that
easier and it's not just by bus it's by train as well how can we have more
autonomy over the trains that come through our through our region how can
we come together with an a fair offer that is integrated which is rail and
bus you know there is definitely room for innovation once we bring buses back
into public control thank you councillor
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:15:51
It was kind of linking on, did you have a follow up?
Yeah, sorry.
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:16:00
Just, you talked about the integration and the discussions that are now going on between
the mayors.
Is there any timeline on, you know, bringing solid proposals forward on that?
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:16:14
In January, David Scaeth, the mayor of York and North Yorkshire, and Oliver Cuppard, mayor
of South Yorkshire and I will be, with a fair wind,
signing the White Rose Agreement,
which is about collaboration amongst the Yorkshire mayors.
And of course, let's not forget, in May next year,
we will have a new mayor of East Riding and Hull.
So the whole of Yorkshire will have four mayors,
and in my experience, being a mayor is place over politics.
So I am, whoever becomes the mayor of East Riding,
I do believe they will want to work collectively with us and the brand of Yorkshire the size of Yorkshire the size of Scotland. I
Just think we are in an incredibly strong position
to have an economic offer for Yorkshire a transport offer for Yorkshire a skills offer for Yorkshire
You know being able an international investment offer for Yorkshire green energy offer for Yorkshire with that collaboration
It's, you know, devolution is not going back in the box.
We have a government that committed to devolution.
We have to take all of those opportunities.
Thank you.
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:17:25
My question kind of stands on the point you made earlier about the opportunity for joint
Matt Edwards - 1:17:29
procurement, which I think is a really, really good idea.
One of the, some of the transport groups, specifically transport groups for representing
disabled people have had issues with some of the procurement in Greater
Manchester and in Merseyside in terms of the way the buses have been designed.
So I and it kind of stems from the point that Ralph said earlier about making sure
that stuff's being co -designed but how are we going to make sure that disabled
people are like embedded in that design process of the new buses to make
sure the new buses are as just like ever they're inclusive and accessible and
I think that's lacking at the moment and not just in the UK in general. Thank you
Thank you very much and honestly that's so important.
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:18:11
That's why the Tell Tracy programme was rolled out
in the early days of me being mayor,
talking to those community groups that feel often
that their challenges aren't heard.
We brought in the orange pass where you could just,
you put your travel pass in an orange wallet
and just by showing it,
tells the driver that you have hidden disabilities,
that you need a bit more support.
I also attended a really passionate and ambitious group of deaf travelers who were telling me that what I thought worked very well,
the spoken timetable on when you press the button at the bus stop, I thought that really worked.
But actually, hearing from them and their frustrations, I then went to the bus stops myself.
And with the noise traffic you can't hear a thing. The the speaker was too high. So we've been able to
Those are just a couple of small examples, but with mass transit we can't afford to get it wrong
We're not going to be retrofitting because community, you know groups have told us that it doesn't work for them
So that's why we've set up a design group
But Simon do you want to speak about the makeup of that group and how widely we're casting the net?
Certainly. Thank you. So we're
currently
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:19:31
in the process of establishing a broad -based equality design reference group for both of
the two major transport change programmes bus franchising and mass transit and we also
intend to be able to capitalize on the same mechanism when we then look at for
example the detailed design of new bus stations. The intention is not then to
override ongoing engagement with a whole range of community groups but to give
ourselves a semi -professionalized group of colleagues with a range of different
lived experiences with whom we can then get into more detailed design option discussions
and really kind of work through some of those really kind of challenging issues that then
follow as of course different individuals with different lived experiences are actually seeking
different benefits in the layout of a vehicle and they're not all potentially
achieved within the relatively small space of a vehicle and therefore those
challenging kind of trade -off issues need to be able to be worked
through with a group whose experience we can benefit from through really
intensive design processes and I'm very happy as we've started to establish the
group to bring that forward and perhaps discuss with the committee how over time
you may want to engage with the group as well. If I could just add one of the
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:21:33
biggest challenges that I've been getting feedback on is space in the bus
for buggies versus wheelchairs and that the bus will go past if there's a buggy
in the space and then that person in a wheelchair has to wait another hour for
the next bus. You know this sort of hierarchy of need how can we try and
sort that out because that does feel to me like when the buses are every 10
minutes it doesn't feel like it's a big issue but if when they're every hour or
they miss and it's every two hours that becomes a real life challenge so we're
really happy to engage with anybody on this on this committee if you have
people that you think in your ward would be very valuable to us in our thinking
please do send them our way thank you
just it was one question I wasn't in a question it came up in our pre -meeting
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:22:24
there is an appetite among some members who want to get some dates and diaries
to have a working group in terms of devolution now the white paper hasn't
been issued yet is there any indication you can give us today as to when that
white paper might be in the public domain so that we can start putting dates
in people's diaries so that they can come to a working group. I mean I accept
that it's not totally concluded yet. Thank you for that question because
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:22:56
actually the white paper is really important to us because our growth plans
which are going to be guiding governments industrial strategy we need
the white paper to give us the tools to deliver on our growth plan.
So it is all interconnected and really important that mayors are at the table.
And what I've said, who is at the table doing the line by line on the bill
and offering my services to be part of that conversation?
Because as we all know, bills change as they go through committee.
How can we make the bill as reaching as possible?
so it's not the floor but gives it leaves it open for other further amendments coming forward as
Devolution develops some deepens and widens but Felix can I come to you on dates and any thoughts about?
How we've worked with government to develop it
Thank you mayor on dates
Felix Kumi-Ampofo, Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:23:56
We expected to land this side of Christmas our current working assumption is that it will be the first week in December
But please don't hold us to that because it keeps changing
and we are not in control of it.
In terms of the work we've been doing with government,
this has been going on since new governments
came into place.
There have been several workshops and seminars
and one -to -one conversations that we've had
with partners in government.
This is not exclusive to us.
Other combined authorities are doing the same
as well as other partners that the government works with.
So until the white paper comes out next month, we don't know how much of what we've put in will be reflected,
but what we've put across has been listened to quite keenly, quite closely,
and we expect that our discussions have made an impact and will be reflected in the draft that comes out.
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:24:53
Can I just put on record, Chair, that I want to congratulate my team for working at such speed in an area that is new for everyone, devolution about what do we need, what tools do we need, and to gain the trust of an incoming government, I think is no mean feat.
And we are regarded as a mature combined authority that is a testbed for ideas, and that is down to the dedication and hard work of the whole of the combined authority.
On record, the comment I made the other day, I met with the chairs of the other combined
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:25:28
authorities and we were talking about implementing the new protocol that came out and the attitude
towards scrutiny in the various combined authorities and I was, even though I say so myself, very
complimentary about how far ahead we are as an authority. The only other one that's comparable
at the moment is Manchester, the others are a little bit behind and so my thanks
to you as the Mayor because you're the one that actually has to drive it
forward in terms of compliance and the way that you want to work with us in
Scranton, you might not always like some of the things, some of the challenges I
make to you when we were in private but I think it's working exceptionally well the way
that we're doing it and the way that you've bought in to the protocol and the
you accepted it because some other combined authorities aren't necessarily accepting it
without challenge if I can put it in diplomatically as that. So thank you for what you've done
because I did compliment you on being one of the exemplars on the way forward. So let's
hope we continue to be friendly but thank you for what you've done because it definitely
stood out the other day when we were talking to the other combined authorities the work
that you had done compared to everybody else.
Thank you, chair. This is ridiculous that we're just such good friends. I'm sure things
Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:26:49
may change as we get to single settlements, etc. But just to add, you know I want us to
be the most transparent and accountable combined authority in the country. We have nothing
to hide. We have nothing to hide. All we need to do is to deliver for the people of West
Yorkshire and if we've made a mistake we will say so but also your check -in
challenge gives us sometimes time to think again about something. We're all in
this together, it's a team sport so thank you for your dedication because I
know a scrutiny committee can sometimes feel like oh you know not the best
committee I want to be on but I've tried to encourage everybody to use this as a
learning experience to understand more about how we work, the areas that
you're interested in to really get on into the weeds of it and hopefully that
would be more satisfying. Thank you chair.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:28:02
The members update. You've been sent the members update, you've had a chance to read through it.

6 Member's update

So there's just a number of things I just want to go through.
So the first thing I want to do is I want to hand over to Councillor Edwards, who conducted
the workshop on the Bradford Interchange.
If there's anything anybody wants to, any questions that you've got, but over to you
Councillor Edwards.
Yeah, in terms of, I'm not going to, obviously you read the reports there, I'm not going
to really repeat myself.
Matt Edwards - 1:28:40
We did try, the workshop I thought was really productive.
Yeah, Tamin and his team found that productive.
Obviously, there was a lot to focus on
in terms of what's not worked,
but I think now the issue specifically
at Interchange have kind of all turned to page
and we've got an opening date.
And so very much a large part of it was focusing
on the kind of the communication side, I think,
and how we can, what can be learned from that,
but just wider in terms of the process going forward.
And that's been a big part of it,
and then making sure it replicates to make sure
that the learning from interchange has relevance
to an asset wherever it may be and whatever authority.
That's all I wanted to say unless anyone
has any particular questions or.
Yes, one of the things that the mayor mentioned
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:29:29
was that the benefit exchange was a surprise.
Now, I spent some time in planning and working
Paul Godwin - 1:29:36
that and I can't see how we employ all these engineers anything should be a
surprise and I worked in a building with rack which is now being rebuilt and they
seem to know 40 years ago 50 years ago really had a limited life and we have
lots of these buildings as you know that have come as a crisis and and these all
appear on our balance sheets now in a way that they didn't in the past so it
seems to me that we should be working to a system where we don't have surprises.
I don't know to what extent that's being brought to build and whether we'll get
be able to get some kind of report on that so at least it won't be a surprise
to elected members. I mean I was a tiny bit taken aback, well not taken
Matt Edwards - 1:30:26
aback, I'm not entirely sure when I suppose the fact that happened at that
exact moment in time was a surprise but I think it was kind of widely accepted
that interchange was approaching the end of its life it just kind of happened an
in Syria like just the timing could not really have been worse and but we had a
meeting with whose name is gone
copy who's the new head of asset management kind of on a similar kind of
tangent on this and there's quite a lot of work being done behind the scenes to
He kind of addressed that, and I'm effectively mapping the assets, because I think he was
quite open and honest about the weaknesses of the existing strategy and how he wanted
to fix it.
Simon, did you have anything you wanted to add on that?
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:31:18
Yeah, just to help, because it's an absolutely fair observation.
So the surprise element was the particular impact that was felt at that moment around
Christmas time of last year and how as a result we had to move very, very quickly to take
a set of immediate decisions around the interchange.
The reason for that surprise was because at that point remedial works were underway on the carriageway
which were intended to address a number of the problems.
Two points just to raise in terms of the age of the asset in comparison to other assets.
So firstly, rack is not actually an issue
in the context of this particular structure.
Rack tends to be an issue in terms of ceiling structures,
rather than fundamental structures.
So he's not in itself an issue in the context of Bradford.
However, the very common issue,
which exists frankly right across the public estate in the UK is just how many
structures were built at that time at a time when records management was
not what it is today. And so in effect the work that we've undertaken at
Bradford Interchange has been in part to create a contemporary understanding of
the nature of the structure and because records management through a series of
different public bodies that have then existed since the 1960s means that
there was not a set of 50 plus year old documents upon which we could we could
base a very clear understanding of the structure. That in part is one of the key areas of focus
that Karl and his team have now been instructed by myself to focus on. The first stage of
a good asset management plan is a good asset register from which a good asset management
plan can be developed.
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:33:58
That is unfortunately the case every asset is a liability I'm afraid but ultimately we what we want them to be
Assets in the interests of the traveling public not liabilities on the public person
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:34:17
In through but this is a story that we've got when you look at bridges and
and all sorts of other infrastructure that we spent the last 20 years not reinvesting in assets.
There was a time when you'd have a thing called a sinking fund to prepare for the eventual replacement of the thing you're buying.
And when you're bidding in for things like 4G pictures from Sports England and things, you actually have to show that you will have such a thing.
I think we need to be communicating this more honestly with the public that what we're at the beginning of
Is catching up with years of neglect?
because unfortunately, you don't know when the next bit falls off a piece of
salt corroded
Reinforced concrete made at a time when there were methods of construction. I mean rack was only meant to be a temporary measure
Right now exactly. Yeah, but then so were the raising of school leaving age porta cabins meant to be a temporary measure
And I think it's only a few years since,
was it Rippondon High School managed
to get rid of some of theirs?
You know, I think we need to find a way of putting it
in the context.
And then we build things that still seem to fall apart.
I noticed on Shipley Station this morning,
I was looking at the bridges that are being built there.
And the sheer scale of rust and corrosion on some of that,
I think, have we actually learned?
But I think we need to be explaining to people.
because when a bridge goes critical and has to be reinforced, it's exactly the same story,
isn't it? Nothing's been done to it for 30 years. It was built by the West Riding or
Bradford City or whoever. And people need to understand that because it will help us
when we're dealing with priorities.
The thing that I asked for our assets because one of the things that cropped up was what
Geraldine Carter - 1:36:17
assets do we have and you on that list was the lay by in the centre of Rippon done as
being a no sorry that wasn't on the list. The one that Rishwith was on the list as being
known by Metro or whatever we are nowadays and I requested about the one
at Rishwith at Riffinden because I'm sure that one belongs to compound
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:36:50
authority. I can certainly check check up on that for you Councillor Carta. You
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:36:57
you will be surprised in terms of the diversity across West Yorkshire in terms
of different entities that own different parts of our system so members will be
aware of the fact that for example we have a bus station in Wakefield at the
moment which is which is owned by Areva don't ask me why it is and that's an
The bus facility in Otley is actually a lead city council facility at the moment.
Again, don't ask me why but it is and again it's an issue.
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:37:37
So we are ultimately looking to establish effectively two sets of asset registers.
One of which is what do we own at present and therefore what is a liability to state the members point before.
and then which assets would you logically expect to be part of a public transport
system in West Yorkshire and in whose ownership are those assets at present
and do we need to do something about that. So I'll check on Rippondon for you.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:38:08
Andrew Marchington - 1:38:20
Some of us had the legacy of T. Dan Smith and
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:38:53
in the Freemasons in Bradford, which the Lord recounts.
We went to prison for a year, and we ended up
building estates that only lasted 15 years
between building and demolition.
What we found, again, that some of the prefabricated social
Andrew Marchington - 1:39:05
housing, building an oil patch, some of it is burnt,
empty sound.
Absolutely.
You know, well over 50 years, all those works.
Yes.
What works?
Hmm.
We're developing a plan which would pass on the generation
of the generation of the generation.
If we can just bring this up to a quick, because then I won't bring in time for many of you
to take your interest.
Oh, right. Yes, I've got an interesting one.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:39:28
Yeah, I mean, just kind of to summarize, I think one of the things that we're sending
out is trying to measure the kind of impact that scrutiny is having. I think that's really
Matt Edwards - 1:39:36
important. And I do want to acknowledge like kind of the work that Simon and the team have
done and kind of ties into some of Tracy said, like it's being honest when sometimes mistakes
have been made. And I think that's actually been a strength of this process is acknowledging
what's not worked primarily I mean if we're honest it's a communication side
of stuff but how quickly that got fixed because I would say the communication
with certainly Bradford councillors in terms of the reopening has been really
good and I think that has been noted by members across the parties in Bradford
But yeah, I do want to thank Simon because it's been very challenging.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:40:19
First of all, we've been briefed and there is a small but very strategic thread and leadership
emerging in Waiakea on this.
And I think we're going to use the model of
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:40:41
I'll have some meetings and undertake some work and report back. Keep it lean
Not overburden with lots and lots of meetings because there's always more things than a whole meeting can do
one of the things I would wanted to focus that was the impact of keeping live music venues going and
Talk to some of the people around about what could because it fits in with check Tracy's pledges and the cultural strategy
and we're going to be doing some work on that and if need be I will try and attend some
of the other meetings to feedback.
But I think this is a good development for us moving on from the reformed scrutiny process
so that we can actually as members take on some proper responsibility rather than just
being a critical friend talking shop but to get a little bit more briefed and to own a
a bit more responsibility.
And it was a good one, we had.
There's been a number of other ones
you've touched on, some really, really good meetings
with types of violence.
We talked about some of the nice things as well,
so that you can get in the way.
So that's fine.
So we need to engage.
Thank you, Barry.
It's been very helpful.
So we're in agreement that the past
was to change conclusions in the next steps.
We're happy with that.
We are happy to know that the asset review and agri -planets strategy has been added to the forward plan as the topic has been just added.
You have had the next version of the local growth plan circulated to you. Some of you have made comments which will then get fed back in again.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:42:20
If you have not already made comments that you would like to maybe feed them in to Hallard, he will ensure that they are passed in.

7 Work Programme

We've talked about the budget workshop which is going to be a working meeting now and you've also heard about volunteers to attend the climate and environment plan workshops as well.
The only other thing we need to agree is the work group, sorry not the work group, the work program.
Are you happy with what's in the work program just now and the time scales that we've got?
Because we need to build in some with a little bit more clarity on the devolution side.
So I think if we can task Khaled and Katie to try and get some dates in the diary and let's work through them.
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 1:43:11
And if we don't, if we have to cancel, we have to cancel.
But at least if we've got the dates in the diary,
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:43:16
it's a lot easier to cancel.
Because certainly from my personal point of view,
trying to do the Leeds City Council work as well,
is that sometimes the diaries get very, very confused
as to where we are and rushing from here to there.
And if there are also online meetings,
it's a lot easier to run them up to within, say,
5 -10 minutes of your previous meeting and still make it kind of a merit
Sorry, I have problems getting
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:43:50
Pre -meeting this morning, but can I just understand the position on the climate change workshops that you referred to?
basically what the suggestion basically what
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:43:58
Basically what the suggestion is that I on Tuesday there is a paper coming to the climate as group
and they are going to suggest that there are some workshops taking place in the whole of
West Yorkshire between the 27th of December and the 15th of January and the suggestion
is, well actually I'll be better to bring in the genius that I have appointed to the
role. Do you want to just replay that?
Presentation Slides - 1:44:32
I think the workshop might be starting in November not December, sorry I think you said
December, it's understandable. Dave what we're asking for is we're asking, there's going
to be this workshop once the plan has been released out for consultation and we want
members of SCWIP need to come forward and volunteer to be part of those workshops and
obviously a kind of to be part of a smaller group who are going to sort of
you know share their ideas and views and really sort of get to grips with this
so we can obviously do the job of scrutiny report back to the scrutiny
committee and there is a potential that we may then decide to do a specific
workshop on it but we want the information from the formal workshops
first before we make that decision. Is that okay?
Okay, that's fine.
Yeah, yeah.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:45:23
Councillor Roods?
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 1:45:29
Thanks, Chair. Could you make a comment on the format of the work program?
I think there's a column that might be of use to those members and be of good
In that where there is planned activity or something to be reported and it might be delayed,
another calling might be useful to have to say the reason why it's being delayed.
When I look at today's, for instance, Monetron's delivery, and we gave them a review, it says
So if we have that fourth column and everything has been delayed for whatever reason and it's
got to be put back and come back I think that would be useful for us all to have a view
of the purpose of the fourth column of the work program.
Secondly, could I ask how, I know we discussed the work program and then the heck of a lot
in the first two. How does this align with the workload of the forward plan of WICAP as the main body committee?
So we can actually track in our program here the issues that go forward to the main body,
whether it's in an overdue situation or to bring it up here to make a challenge.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:46:56
Yeah, well hopefully on that it's well I would not say it's in perfect lockstep
but
Khaled has tried to work with
The relevant officers looked at the forward plan and is trying to make sure that it's happening
For example, we were going to have in January a major
discussion on transport related items but we've now been advised that some of
those will not be anywhere near the consultation for example that some of us
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:47:24
have been contributing to has not yet been properly analyzed and so until
that's being done we can't inform any opinions as to what do our residents
think about various things. Do you want to add anything to that? Only
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 1:47:41
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:47:46
Mr Khaled Berroum (Scrutiny Officer) - 1:47:48
that we can add the forward plan to this pack for the future if you want but I have tried to capture in that middle
column milestones where things are going on certain days to the
combiner for your transport committee or whatever but we can make that clearer.
Just as the chair has mentioned previously, the issues that are very
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 1:48:14
relevant to the work programme but the time is most dictational and forward and in that column, the fourth column, it would be indicative of saying that's been delayed because of.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:48:28
I would also suggest that maybe we keep this as a live document so that if we're not meeting
until January, we maybe send an update out in December so you then got a rough idea as
to what's happened in the interim because I and a number of other members are getting
briefings on various subjects and so if we feed into that, it then becomes a bit of a
live document and then people know exactly what's happening.
So we're all agreed on those things

8 Dates of the next meetings

And so that yes, I just wanted to ask on that
24th of January transport list

7 Work Programme

Though those are obviously sort of policy topics are we also going to talk about LTP delivery
And how well the existing LTP is being delivered and the future
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:49:16
Yes, yes
Thank you. Can we incorporate that into it? Yes.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:49:23
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:49:26
Could I also ask on the later document for plan of key decisions,
on page 7 there's the City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement Rail Accessibility Package, Step 3 Station Access.
There's one scheme listed and only one which given the number of rail stations struck me as a bit glacial, shall we say, in terms of progress.
Forward plan of key decisions from 1st November page 7.
Top of top line.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:50:11
So if it was only one station being upgraded in the year, and given the number of stations
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:50:24
where we still don't have disabled access, I was just wondering about whether there should
questions being asked about how fast we're going to ensure disabled access.
I know the government's previous legislation I think had 20 -25 as a year
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:50:44
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:50:51
when everything had to be accessible. We appear to be a long way off meeting that.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:50:55
Certainly that particular issue was discussed at the last transport meeting as well
about the accessibility of some of the stations and some of the problems that
were being caused, particularly in the Bradford area,
Menston station was mentioned as one that seems to have
a particular accessibility issue.
Matt Edwards - 1:51:18
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:51:18
Matt Edwards - 1:51:20
Some of the other stations have been upgraded,
but the strange thing is there's no accessibility
Cllr Bob Felstead - 1:51:26
because the disabled access is gated off.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:51:37
Yeah, yeah. I think that is a good point maybe to look at, something
Matt Edwards - 1:51:39
we could probably do, because it's also what stations are considered accessible but perhaps aren't.
So for example, I mean, Ralph mentioned Shipley train station. In an evening, in a heavy rain, it's got two accessibility points that aren't, neither of them are accessible because one's flooded and the other, the lift's turned off.
So I think that's probably something we can pick up on.

8 Dates of the next meetings

Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:52:06
So in that case thank you very much for your attendance today I thought that was an excellent meeting in terms of debating things with the mayor.
It showed that we have a grip on what's happening in terms of the challenges that we put forward to her and the way that it was done.
So...
Oh, right, yes. Ah, yes. The final one that... yes. Rural issues.
I want a number of you have raised concerns about the impact in the rural
communities that we've got. So I had a meeting yesterday with Alan it was
originally meant to be with Ben still with Alan Reese and with Sarah Eaton
because I wanted to set up and get some of you to work together on that. The view
of Allen is that rural issues are taken into consideration and everything that
the combined authority does disagreed. So are you happy if I set up a rural
working group to look into those issues that we go ahead and do it? You know the
officers don't think it's a good idea. Do you feel that it would be worthwhile at
scoping out to find out the connectivity of all of these different plans that are
going on particularly semi -rural wards I mean your ward is semi -rural to a
certain extent as well although you might say oh you actually represent a
city a city ward but it is a relatively large rural side to it and
connectivity can be a bit of a problem.
So you're quite happy if we set up,
because I can't do anything without your permission.
Yeah, I've got that.
Okay, sorry.
As you've pointed at me in my ward,
I think I want more clarity on what these rural issues are
Kate Haigh - 1:54:06
that are distinct from urban issues,
and are we going to, as a counterpoint,
then need an urban issues working group as well.
or is it within the whole range of what we're doing? There's a variety of different types of rules represented around this table in different parts of West Yorkshire.
So what specific issues are unique to rural reality and are we, as a counterpoint, going to have ones that are unique to being in an urban environment?
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:54:43
What I'd be planning to do is, now that if you're happy to do it, I'll commission that we'll have
a Teams meeting and we will actually develop up some points of reference and some scoping.
We'll scope out what we want to look at, who we need to speak to and who's going to lead on it.
So at this stage I honestly don't know what is and isn't going to come. Rural transport will
definitely be one. Accessing skills and various other things are
another as well. The impact on nighttime economy getting to things, I mean, you
know, in some of our wards you can't get to the theaters that maybe are operating
in some of our places or in Councillor Berry's case get to some of the music venues
because the public transport system... I would just suggest that we
scope it out and if when we scope it out we don't find that there's enough to go
on, finally close it down, if however we do find that there's enough to go on
then we develop it further. I would just challenge that there are areas of urban isolation,
Kate Haigh - 1:55:52
areas of urban areas that have challenges as well around some of those issues you've raised.
So I do, I just wonder why we're particularly focusing on that when maybe it's a broader
issue that affects more people.
I would disagree with that because I think the authority as a whole is
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:56:13
directed towards
Cllr Richard Smith - 1:56:16
all the urban areas and I think some rural areas are looking to be quite honest with
you.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:56:23
I mean apart from, there are parts of Bradford that are definitely rural.
Two boroughs?
Yeah well I'm gonna say well Leeds is two -thirds, Leeds is two -thirds rural.
All the West Yorkshire Net authorities are two -thirds rural.
Yeah so that was why.
Colvedale's wrong.
Colvedale's either two of them.
Well sure at least they're not saying anything.
Yeah so that was that was the reason behind it is it was something that
tends to not necessarily I'm not saying that you'd have a paragraph in every single report
but when you're doing an analysis on a number of other things like climate
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:57:00
change or compliance with equalities we maybe need to have something in to say
that we've looked at the impact this may have on different on the rural areas
because it definitely does happen
When we have the floods in Kildare, those are issues that are important, aren't they?
The impact of climate change on the flooding.
And then there are pockets of poverty and inequality that does express itself.
Cllr Ralph Berry - 1:57:39
I can take you to a four -part bill for it.
And there are, then there is...
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
And so what is, what's happening with the skills and things like that?
I don't see this as the urban against the rural.
I think framing that is really unhelpful because really one of the things I'm trying to do
is I'm trying to get the people where I'm working to get out into the rural because
it's good for their mental health and wellbeing to do so and it'll challenge the stereotypes
of people and that's another agenda.
So I think we need to be careful how we frame that but there are undoubtedly issues to do
with transport access, particularly affecting young people,
either daughter who lives in a place called Carlton,
it's hidden, she's got her own house now for me.
The young people in those areas with no type of transport
and all those things, I've worked with families
who are trying to negotiate separated parenting
across rural areas and there's no fuss with them.
So I think we need to do what you've suggested,
which is identify the areas you want to look at.
But at every point, just remember, it's just as difficult trying to get good quality food in butter shawl as it is in corn limes.
I know I've missed a lot of this conversation, I was trying to sort my rural roasters out that don't exist.
And to help people get to work and get to cultural activities and things, that's what I was trying to do.
Cllr Helen Brundell - 1:59:11
I wondered, years ago we used to have on every report a rural programme
and that went out the window quite some time ago because we didn't have that rural city space anymore.
But I wondered, is it possible for us to have a workshop or something or a group of us that actually look at the impact of everything that the Canline Authority does on the rural area?
That is what we were suggesting.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 1:59:48
Geraldine Carter - 1:59:54
And this, we're not talking about somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
I mean, I live in Hoodhamton, yeah, no it's not a very early place to live.
But everywhere around there, this is what you contend with on a daily basis.
But yet when the motorway closes, we can't get anywhere either because every bit of traffic comes through and doing whatever it wants down the way down.
And it could help if we could just look at things in a bit of a different way.
That's why I'm suggesting that we just get together, scope it out, and
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 2:00:40
if there are areas where there's overlap with urbanized areas as well,
we then look to see whether or not what we can do to try and reflect back those concerns as well.
Back to, because our job is just to reflect back to officers and to the leaders that we need to do.
I mean, the comment I made the other day was there's a
representative from Calderdale who's been at a lot
of meetings recently.
I forget the lady's name, but she has contributed brilliantly
to all of the meetings by pointing out the issues
that Calderdale has to face up to.
So, and this is a Labour member, so what I'm trying to say,
So what I'm saying is that it is a cross -party issue
because this person was very, had been very, very eloquent
at the meeting recently explaining the issues
that they've got.
So that's why I wanted to try and address it.
Yes, we've all got it in all of our councils.
We've got urban and we've got semi -urban.
And when does something become urban from semi -urban?
When does something become semi -rural from rural?
It is, what we've got to do is we're trying
to represent every single person. It came home to me when we had the debate on the
leader economic strategy at the last scrutiny meeting where there was a
feeling that it was too lead centric. Sorry sorry sorry sorry I can't help
being a lead counselor I do apologize for that but there was a lot of
concern raised and since then there has been concern raised that even the
changes that have been made as a result of our contribution haven't moved far
enough in terms of it being least centric. Now for good or for bad, what we
need to do is try and give information to those that make the decisions that
they need to take more notice of the rural on one side and those people who
are in pockets within the urban area where they are suffering just as badly
as any urban person is.
I mean, I know, being parochial for a minute,
in Leeds city centre, in and around Halbeck,
believe it or not, they have problems getting the bus service to come along.
And that's only within two miles of the city centre.
So theoretically they could walk, but trying to get a bus service
into Halbeck has been proving extremely difficult.
So yes, I am aware of these concerns.
Yes, this is just a small point in the past, but
but the reason it's Leeds Century is because you have a railway that runs here, a motorway that runs here,
and you're very well connected.
A century ago, you would be back in the century.
And the reason it isn't back in the century anymore is the lack of the railway and the lack of the rail.
Paul Godwin - 2:03:40
That's the message I get.
I think I made this point last time I saw that Leeds is, after London and Birmingham,
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 2:03:49
Kate Haigh - 2:03:52
it's the third biggest city in this country. It's not just regionally important, it's not
just important within West Yorkshire, it's a nationally and European and world important
city. So whilst I understand people who represent areas outside of those, want those areas represented,
I do think we have to recognize you know that that leads like in Manchester
Which is ten authorities with quite a small authority called Manchester in the middle of it
Yeah, that is that is where people will focus and the other areas benefit from that
It's not a threat. It's actually a benefit
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 2:04:30
Wherever we come from, that we have all our own issues.
And I think when you look at the main item within that agenda,
the benefits are should benefit everybody, is the transport of that.
It's transport.
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 2:04:53
How unreconditioned.
We have to recognise that the situation in population terms has changed.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 2:05:04
The change has brought about demands that we haven't got to able people to engage in
their own areas.
And if we don't get the transport policy right, and that should be part of the main agenda
of the mass transit we've earned today, that should be the mass transit and it should be
Cllr Betty Rhodes - 2:05:24
there to say what, I think the question I would say is, what benefits are going to accrue
out of this transport plant which is the main area that would benefit all of us.
Cllr Barry Anderson (Chair) - 2:05:39
Right, so with that said, thank you all very much for your time and we will meet in January.