Transport Committee - Monday 14 October 2024, 2:00pm - West Yorkshire Combined Authority Webcasting

Transport Committee
Monday, 14th October 2024 at 2:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
  2. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
  3. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  4. Cllr Matthew McLoughlin
  5. Cllr Caroline Firth
  6. Kate Ravilious
  7. Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council)
  8. Cllr Sarah Courtney (Calderdale Council)
  9. Adele Rae
  10. Cllr Neil Buckley
  11. Tony McGrath
  12. Cllr Tony Hames
  13. Joe Wheatley
  14. Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council
  15. Cllr Katie Kimber
  16. Cllr Caroline Firth
  17. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  18. Mrs Melissa Liburd
  19. Mr Mick Bunting, Interim Director West Yorkshire Combined Authority
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  1. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  2. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
  3. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
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  1. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
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  1. Raymond Jones
  2. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
  3. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  4. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
  5. Cllr Jakob Williamson (Wakefield Council)
  6. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
  7. Cllr Jakob Williamson (Wakefield Council)
  8. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
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  1. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  2. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
  3. Kate Ravilious
  4. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
  5. Joe Wheatley
  6. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  7. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
  8. Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair)
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  1. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  2. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  3. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  4. Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council
  5. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  6. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  7. Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council)
  8. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  9. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  10. Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council)
  11. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  12. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  13. Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council)
  14. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  15. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  16. Adele Rae
  17. Cllr Andrew Pinnock
  18. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  19. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  20. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  21. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  22. Tony McGrath
  23. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  24. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  25. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  26. Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council)
  27. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  28. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  29. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  30. Cllr Tony Hames
  31. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  32. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  33. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  34. Cllr Matthew McLoughlin
  35. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  36. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  37. Cllr Matthew McLoughlin
  38. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  39. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
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  1. Mrs Melissa Liburd
  2. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  3. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  4. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  5. Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council
  6. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  7. Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council)
  8. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  9. Raymond Jones
  10. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  11. Cllr Tony Hames
  12. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  13. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  14. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  15. Adele Rae
  16. Cllr Andrew Pinnock
  17. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  18. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  19. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  20. Cllr Jakob Williamson (Wakefield Council)
  21. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  22. Cllr Jakob Williamson (Wakefield Council)
  23. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  24. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  25. Cllr Matthew McLoughlin
  26. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  27. Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council)
  28. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  29. Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  30. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  31. Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council)
  32. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  33. Kate Ravilious
  34. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  35. Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council
  36. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  37. Cllr Matthew McLoughlin
  38. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  39. Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council)
  40. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  41. Cllr Sarah Courtney (Calderdale Council)
  42. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  43. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
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  1. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
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  1. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  2. Kate Ravilious
  3. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  4. Cllr Tony Hames
  5. Cllr Neil Buckley
  6. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  7. Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council
  8. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  9. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  10. Chris Steele
  11. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  12. Tony McGrath
  13. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  14. Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council)
  15. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
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  1. Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee
  2. Webcast Finished

1 Apologies for Absence

Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:00:03
Right everybody can we start the meeting please?
That would be really good. You should have your papers in front of you.
We've got a large number of people here which is always nice to see.
My name is Susan Hingegliffe, I'm leader of Bradford and Chair of West Yorkshire Transport Committee.
I'm only here for the first half hour of the meeting unfortunately because I've got all the meetings to go to.
bit of a packed afternoon but Councillor Peter Carle who's a deputy chair on
transport alongside Councillor Eric Firth will be leading the meeting after I
have to leave at half past or before half past if possible. So just do who we are around the
table so everybody knows who we are. I've given my name, who's your name?
Adam Holmes, Committee Chair.
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:00:52
Councillor Peter Carlisle, Deputy Chair of the Transport Committee.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:00:57
And Councillor Eric Firth, also Deputy Chair of the Transport Committee.
Councillor Matthew McLachlan, Transplant Engagement Lead for Kirklees Council.
Cllr Matthew McLoughlin - 0:01:06
Councillor Kate Rivilius, Exec Member for Transport, City of York Council.
Cllr Caroline Firth - 0:01:11
Councillor Alex Ross Shaw, Portfolio Holder for Regeneration Planning
Kate Ravilious - 0:01:14
and Transport, Bradford Council.
Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council) - 0:01:20
that Sarah Courtney a cabinet member for regeneration and transport Colford our
Cllr Sarah Courtney (Calderdale Council) - 0:01:27
council councillor Chris still for a better council councillor Adele rare
Adele Rae - 0:01:33
from Leeds Council councillor Andrew Finnick Kirk please
councillor Tony Wallace Wakefield
Cllr Neil Buckley - 0:01:39
Councillor Tony McGrath -Kirkleys.
Councillor Joe Atkinson -Caldwell.
Councillor Neil Bickley -Leeds.
Tony McGrath - 0:01:50
Councillor Raymond Jones -Leeds.
Cllr Tony Hames - 0:01:55
Councillor Joe Wheatley -Bradford.
Joe Wheatley - 0:01:58
Councillor Matthew Morley, Cabinet Member Planning and Transportation
Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council - 0:02:01
and Airways, Wakefield
Council.
Councillor Pryor from Leeds.
Councillor Jacob Williamson from Wakefield
Cllr Katie Kimber - 0:02:12
Councillor Katie Kimber from Calderdale
Cllr Caroline Firth - 0:02:15
Councillor Caroline Perth Bradford
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:02:18
Hello, I'm Helen Haldson, Head of Transport Policy at the Combined Authority
Mrs Melissa Liburd - 0:02:25
Melissa Liburd, Interim Head of Passenger Experience here at the Combined Authority
Mick Bunting, Interim Director of Transport Operations, Combined Authority, good afternoon
Mr Mick Bunting, Interim Director West Yorkshire Combined Authority - 0:02:34
and I'm Simon Warburton, Executive Director for Transport. Lovely, thank you very much.

2 Declaration of Disclosable Pecuniary Interests

Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:02:42
I'm ready for that. So any apologies for absence? There's a lot of people here which is always good to see.
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:02:45
Apologies have been received from Councillor Moses Cook, Councillor Andrew Barley,
Councillor Annie Maloney and Natalie Sykes. Thank you very much. Any declarations of
Disclosable pecuniary interests

3 Exempt Information - Possible Exclusion of the Press and Public

Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:03:00
None received thank you very much and exempt information now, there is some exempt information
in here under the under
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:03:08
appendix 219 fares
and therefore
Can people please be mindful and council carla will remind people when we get to that item
That if you want to discuss anything that appendix then we'll have to make sure everybody leaves a room who's not meant to be in
that
If you don't, if you can discuss it in public then that would be great and we can stay in this room and with people present.

4 Minutes of the meeting of the Transport Committee held on 28 August 2024

So that's what that's for and then minutes of the meeting of the Transport Committee held on 28th of August.
Any comments, questions? Councillor Jones.
I think it is the issue of no, they're not going to contact anybody
Raymond Jones - 0:03:49
after 8 o 'clock at night and my concern was for elderly and disabled and women being left in vulnerable positions.
It's got down as resolved, but unfortunately I don't think that's been resolved.
it's not resolved at all and I will continue to fix that here because I'm
genuinely concerned that people are being left in vulnerable positions and
it's not acceptable thank you Councillor Jones I am Simon do you want to take
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:04:16
that away yeah we will do I do apologize to
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:04:21
Councillor Jones thank you very much Councillor Jones raising that any other
comments questions on the minutes the meeting no of Councillor
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:04:29
understand yet the rail operators yeah because I raised them I think not last
Cllr Jakob Williamson (Wakefield Council) - 0:04:39
meeting meeting before about the passenger from the rail operators and
one person would have any information come back on that and what was the
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:04:50
specific question sorry cancel it to do with like service reductions and carriage
Cllr Jakob Williamson (Wakefield Council) - 0:04:55
reductions and stuff I was wondering if any passenger there come back at all
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:05:00
We had Northern and we had TPE. I'm not sure what I can't quite recall if there's any further data than the bit that there's quite a comprehensive report that came.
Perhaps we could just talk outside the meeting just to see what it was specifically that they should provide which wasn't provided in that report.
If we can take that. Helen, would you mind having a conversation with Councillor Williamson afterwards? Thank you for that.
Any other comments questions apart from those two elements are we have to pass
those correct record all those in favor please show thank you very much that is

8 Bradford Interchange: Next Steps

carried and so we're going to bring forward a Bradford interchange next
steps sorry as chair of the committee is my prerogative to do that before I leave
the room and it's obviously has been a major issue for Bradford for some time
now we're very encouraged to see that the combined authorities now mobilizing
to reopen the interchange which residents who've been very patient will
be really relieved to hear. Obviously there's a report in here about the
survey results and the summary I thought was quite helpful in here but Simon
would you like to do some open remarks on this before I ask questions? Thank you
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:06:21
chair. So this report builds on the report that we took to the June meeting
of the combined Authority with a focus on three parallel workstreams that
are underway. Firstly establishing through the survey program how we can go
about safely reopening Bradford Interchange.
We have also started further work on the back
of the recent mass transit consultation
to begin to look at the longer term bus station location
within Bradford city centre and also continuing work
under mixed guidance in terms of on -street provision for bus users through the immediate
period. As we set out in the report, we have now had all of the advice from Jacobs and
we have subsequently, and I do apologise to members that it wasn't available in time for
the publication of the original agenda pack we've now made available on the
Transport Committee site a full copy of the Jacobs report and what that report
looked into in particular was the load -bearing capacity of the structure,
a structural assessment of the health and safety risks of occupying the bus
station with passengers and vehicles and a structural assessment to determine the
operational life expectancy and ongoing cost. What the attached report
confirms is that the structure is is is comparable with with its age but that
the findings of the investigation indicate that the risk associated with
the operation of the interchange and subsequent reinstatement of both
pedestrian and vehicular traffic loading is low, provided that appropriate control measures
are implemented. And then Jacobs went go on to append a safety risk assessment that delineates
that further. Building on that and taking the advice of the Combined Authorities legal team,
We have then appointed external health and safety lawyers who in turn advised us on bringing
in an independent forensic structural engineer so that they could further inform a decision -making
regime to ensure that the combined authority in moving to reopen the facility
meet our duties under sections two and three of the Health and Safety at Work Act.
They relate to both ensuring the health and safety of our employees
and also ensuring the safety of all other users of the facility.
What the forensic structural engineer has concluded is set out in full paragraph 3 .19
and he finds that the condition of the interchange is comparable with its 50 year life and that
given the nature of the incident in January 2024 that we as a body have taken the reasonably practical steps to be expected of a competent authority that we've identified and proposed reasonably practical steps for inspection testing and assessment so that we can undertake the right action planning.
and of course that we should note that our duty is is ongoing and therefore we
need to maintain a monitoring regime around the facility but that said it is
it is his view that the conclusions that Jacobs have reached are appropriate
conclusions. In doing so he's highlighted in particular two elements, one relating
to the staircases leading from the lower concourse to the bus station which can
only be reopened once the tiles have been removed from staircase walls. There
is a program of work now that's already underway to do that but he's also
highlighted that those retail units that are beneath the bus station slab and
affected by water ingress should not be reopened until remedial actions
identified by the drainage management survey have been undertaken as there
remains a risk of water coming into contact with electricity in that
location and that is that is something that we continue to to work through. So
So on the basis of the Jacobs advice and the further assurance, we're clear now with our legal advisors that we have a plan in place that can take us towards reopening.
there are a series of mobilisation activities underway against that plan
and it's our intention that by the end of the month in time for the meeting of the
Commander Authority on the 31st of October we'll be ready to advise members on an appropriate date
to reopen. Thank you very much Simon, so good to see that work is underway or ready to reopen and
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:13:07
getting and doing those next steps. Obviously those are outlined in this
document and there's a proper estate management planning place going forward
to make sure. It sounds like from what I'm seeing that all the places in the
interchange or practically all the person in the interchange that we all know as
residents who use it regularly, those are going to be reopened again and people
will see those places that they've seen before. It just needs to be reopened.
It just helps people navigating around the district, especially with the new bus
routes and bus stops so it'd be great to see that and also in here of course we
have an indication about in the future with a mid to mid term long term for
example when we talk about trams there will be an interchange with the tram
system as well so we're looking ahead and making sure that we've got an
interchange which is fit for the future notwithstanding that this one is going
reopening the short to medium term so any questions comments on this
councilor sure council weekly thank you and thanks to officers for very
Kate Ravilious - 0:14:12
far obviously it's taken some time to get here but you know how important was
to make sure that work and investigation was robust but obviously for the Brad
but it's it's there's good news is the reopening of a bus station obviously we
would never wanted to see or anticipate closing can be.
And we've seen the kind of disruption it's caused
and I know our team's worked very close
with the combatant for it on trying to mitigate
that disruption as we've undergone those
transforming cities works which we're now really starting
to see the benefits from if you come to Bradford
and you see Market Street opening up
and think that used to be full of buses
and now the kind of people have reclaimed that
and walking down the middle of it looks fantastic.
So you can really see the vision coming together.
So really pleasing to know that the station is now going to reopen as part of that.
I know we're looking at the sort of what we work on in the interim works,
but now just the sort of beneficial works to improve that look and feel of the station
so it's a suitable gateway for our area's UK city of culture as well.
So pleased that it's kind of coming together.
It's obviously been a tough year for the buses and as you've said,
there's a lot of work to do to kind of promote that and get people back in
and working with people so they can get used to the new layouts as well.
So I'm looking forward to doing that and kind of powering into 2025 with a bit of momentum behind them as well.
Thank you, Councillor O 'Shay. Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:15:36
Just a quick question under the summary bullet point one.
Joe Wheatley - 0:15:40
It says reopening the lower concourse as an initial step to be completed as soon as possible.
Do we have any rough timescales for that rather than to be completed as soon as possible?
Yes, I'm hopeful that that work should be completed and we should have
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:15:55
that open by the early part of November.
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:16:00
Thank you. Any more questions or comments on this or we're happy to endorse the next steps?
So if we're happy with recommendations, can I support those and see all those in favor please show.
Thank you very much. Just want everyone to get on with it Simon. I think it's a clear
indication from this meeting. Lovely. Well I will cede the chair now to Councillor
Carlile as I now have to leave to another meeting. Thank you Councillor Carlile.
Thank you very much. Apologies everybody that I have to leave early today.
Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe (Chair) - 0:16:55
Okay, thank you. So we obviously adjusted the order of the agenda there, but we'll go

5 Transport Policy Update

back then to the standard orders to say that. So item five is the transport policy update.
Helen, do you want to introduce that? Thank you, Councillor Carl. Okay, so this
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:17:11
is the report that we bring well every time to the meetings now but it's kind
of the collection of areas to just kind of bring up to date on a number of
things that don't get caught elsewhere. So I think just to start with in here
we've just kind of given a bit of a summary of where we where the Department
of Transport seems to be going around kind of just the broad areas that
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:17:30
they're focusing on and really reminding on the local growth plan and the work
we're doing around the local transport plant to link into that. The second area in here was around active travel.
This was just to bring to Transport Committee the capability ratings that were published by active travel England in September.
Combine authority has been voted as a three again, which is good news because that keeps our rating the same as last time.
And it means that we can still access the same kind of thresholds if you like of funding
when we come around to another funding allocation. Also just to
note under there we are continuing to build our active travel strategy and
hoping to before the end of this year have a draft of that that we can
incorporate into our local transport plan and so that's all kind of coming
together through that process. Thirdly in the update I just
wanted to bring a point around the leveling up funds so obviously
leveling up fund was a previous government funding funding policy feel
like for which the combined authority was successful in bringing in leveling
leveling up fund for around one and round two but this is particularly
around round two which was including 41 point two five million pounds across a
number of schemes so the a 629 North Halifax the a 639 Park Road in
Polifract and a package if you like of bus station stops and highway
improvements across the network. The process to access the leveling up fund that government
made available, we've been working through. That means that we submitted on Friday our
programme business case to DFT for their formal assessment. Obviously, since we've submitted
it, we've had a change of government and a change of focus and potential structure around
some of this funding. We don't know quite where this will come out after the
budget etc etc but we have completed our part of the bargain if you like to get
to this point now so we just wanted to bring it back through Transport
Committee because it's been a while since it's been here and to just let you
know that that business case has gone in now so we enter the next stage of the
conversation. Next in the update is around the EV strategy so if you recall
We consulted on our electric vehicle strategy and our local electric vehicle infrastructure program over the summer alongside our LTP
engagement the electric vehicle strategy consultation ended on the 12th of
September and we had a really good response to that consultation
And the report on kind of that consultation along with the LTP engagement will come back in January to committee
But that was a good discussion around that.
And then just lastly in this paper, just the update from Rail North through this, which
is just essentially reminding transport committee that the accessibility task and finish group
are continuing to kind of develop their plan for achieving kind of step free access across
stations across the North.
And TFN have developed a kind of a state of play review, if you like, on the rail network
where projects are highlighted.
They've done a programme to look at where there are gaps in the rail network
and where therefore they could focus on some of their requirements going down the line.
So it's really to just remind the Transport Committee across that.
TFNR are also looking to establish a Leeds Area Task Force as well,
to which we will update Transport Committee as and when that emerges
and how we involve and work with that.
Okay.
Thank you, Helen.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:21:23
Yeah, a lot of issues detailed in that report, some of which we talked of previously, like the accessibility at stations and the EV charging.
Just a quick add before I go.
It's really good to see, obviously, that we've retained that level three rating, the highest rating any authority has got for active travel.
and that does include notes on the capability of the combined authority and district to
deliver schemes as well as obviously the political ambitions of those in this room and district
politicians as well. So I think thanks to all of the officers that have delivered that
but also all of ourselves as well for seeking to be at that level. Obviously the next level
up is level 4 which no authority has got which it it does report that we'd love
to to work towards at the time but any questions then on on the details of that
report yeah Councillor Morley yeah thank you for that chair it goes back to the
Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council - 0:22:18
access for all funding this first start coming about and certainly come on my
desk in 2019 we've bid for the Pontyfract Monkeil station to date no
work still happened on that station and the threatened to put some audience up
but this is a tremendous long time now.
I did raise a last transport committee.
I don't recall I didn't receive an update on that.
Can we get an update as where we are with that program?
Cause this was campaigned quite a long time ago
by many, many local members and community groups
in the Pontchart area.
So it's something that has been talked about.
The money's there, what are the old ups?
And similarly, one that's not on the agenda,
but one we really like to see moving forward
is Knottling Station on the very edge
the Wakefield district that that is a massive issue with access built as well
as I know other areas are but just to put that on the radar. Thank you. Thank you
Councillor Morley. So we asked the questions about Pontiffapmonk after
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:23:16
the last
Transport Committee meeting and yeah thank you for the reminder because I don't
think we had a response so we'll follow up again on that. And on Nottingley
station as you know obviously we're working on our new local
transport plan and behind that we'll have a we are also working on our
pipeline for our implementation plan so thank you for flooding in not only
because it will we'll make sure that it is captured in that process thank you
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:23:45
capsule Courtney yeah thank you it is great that the combined authorities kept
Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council) - 0:23:48
the level three status that's brilliant I've got a couple of comments first one
really is about you know it's great to hear that the combined authorities
is looking at developing an active travel strategy,
and that's fantastic.
And what I'd like to say is, can we make sure
that the strategies, and this isn't just a wicker issue,
it happens everywhere, but the different strategies
are all making sure that they align with each other.
So for example, there's this active travel strategy,
there's the transport plan,
and then also the economic strategy,
and all of these things are really intertwined,
and I just think it'd be really helpful
to make sure that the strategies are aligned with each other and working to support each
other and not in competition with each other, which I know that you know, but I just wanted
to be really explicit about that because they really feed into each other. The transport
plan can really feed into helping reduce inequalities, getting people back into work and all of those
sorts of things, so it's really important. That's my first question. Did you? It's up
to you. Don't mind how you do it.
Okay, yeah, thank you. So the active travel strategy is a door to
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:24:55
document of the local transport plan. So, and it's not sitting on its own in a modal silo either, it is integrated in our streetspace work within that.
And in turn, the local transport plan is feeding into and in reverse the local growth plan. So the look and feel across those documents should hopefully all come out in the same direction.
Brilliant, thank you.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:25:20
Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council) - 0:25:25
And I suppose just sort of a thing around sort of buses and franchising, so obviously
Colesdale, we're in the later stages of the franchising and we're just, you know, what
is making sure that we keep our bus services working in the sort of medium term while we're
waiting for franchising.
I think it's not just a Colesdale issue, I think it's all of, especially those of us
that are on the edges of that border
onto other transport authorities.
And just making sure that our bus services remain.
I know that we don't have control over it,
but just doing everything we possibly can in order
to sort of keep them going.
Because obviously, we have our own inclusive economy strategy.
And it's really important for us that our buses are working,
especially for the people that are poorer in our borough
and have got the greatest levels of deprivation.
Those bus services are often a lifeline to work and college
and helping people get out of economic inactivity.
I have got one more question, so should I just do that now?
And that's just around the accessibility
and the access for all programs.
It's great, but it's not 10 million,
and we've got like, what, 70 % of stations are inaccessible.
So can we just make sure that next time
we're putting in bids for, is it the CRSTS funds
that we just really try and boost that as much as we can.
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:26:53
So incredibly important point that's raised with regard to transition through to us franchising.
We're already engaging with operators to make sure that we can identify any issues that present
themselves while upstream and there is a certain amount of resource within the
transition budget that the authority set aside to help in that regard but yeah I
can assure members that it is an aspect of transition that will continue to
monitor very closely and we do recognize it as a risk.
Sorry, on that last question, just...
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:27:36
Yeah, so it's just around, in terms of the sort of accessibility, the station's accessibility,
Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council) - 0:27:40
just about the fact that there isn't really enough money to do everything that we need
to do, is there?
Thank you, I had a complete mind -blowing.
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:27:48
So yeah, so access, because as we flag in rightly there in our LTP, but also in there,
the 70 % of our stations are not fully compliant. That program will feature in our CRSDS as it did in the last round.
There have been a number of stations that have been included in there as part of that funding program outside of Access4All, so it is broader than that that we do try.
We have a number of stations being included in the Trans -Pennine Reach Upgrade at the moment, so that's helpful again, but obviously it's only a tiny bit of the network.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:28:28
Thank you, yeah, yeah. Really important point really on buses, Sarah, because the reason
the Mayor made the decision she did really was that decline of bus services that has
been ongoing for decades really and how do we try and insist that that decline is at
least halted until we get to under public control. That's a real struggle that we've
got at the moment. There's some in the passenger experience report that we've gone on to that
shows just where services are. I've got Councillor Pinnock next and unless I see
any more indications I'll be... all right yeah so Councillor Pinnock then Councillor McGrath
and that'll be it. Thank you chair. A couple of miscellaneous points.
Adele Rae - 0:29:01
I'd like to know if you're
talking about franchising just now and the subject of Wakefield bus station
came into my mind which as far as I know is either in the process of being
transferred from Areva to the authority or will be.
But what are the implications there
for the costs of anything to do with having
to remodel it or repairs?
And then just an odd inquiry about Batley Station.
Half of Batley Station is inaccessible from an
accessibility point of view.
The bit where you draw up to the station is all right,
but the other side is really very difficult.
That might come under the transpondent upgrade, of course.
But my main question was going to be
about electric vehicle charging.
And it's not some of the obvious things that are down here.
But what work has been done or needs
Cllr Andrew Pinnock - 0:30:12
to be done to ascertain whether the supply electrical supply network is is
robust enough to deal with a vast increase or at least a large increase in
the number of people using and recharging electric vehicles. Thank you.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:30:31
I don't know Simon is there anything you want to briefly touch on on the Wakefield
bus station issue and then Helen I guess. Yeah, yeah certainly perhaps
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:30:39
if I pick up
Batley station and then I'll leave Helen to solve the problems of the national grid. So
with regard to Wakefield, yes our intention at present is in preparation for franchising
to move to acquisition of both the depot and the bus station. I was going to pick up issues
associated with Wokefield depot at present under the general update on bus network so
if we pause on that. But with regard to the bus station as part of work that we're undertaking
at the moment to assess all of the assets that we would acquire. There's a
survey work that's underway so that we're very clear in terms of the state
of any asset that we're looking to acquire. Certainly we know that there are
long -standing issues with rain and the roof at Wakefield Bus Station
which need resolving.
With regard to Batley Station,
my understanding is that there are improvements
through Trans -Pennine at Batley Station.
It's not an easy station to resolve
from an access perspective,
given the topography around the station.
But I think more widely,
the whole issue of access for all actually plays
into what we can hopefully address through the government's intention to
move to Great British Railways which is that as members are aware we have been
frustrated as an organisation by the pace or at times lack of it that we've
seen within the rail industry in actually taking the funds that you have
secured and set aside for it and delivering them in the ground and that's
going to be critical if we're going to step forward with access measures at a
better pace than we've seen from the rail industry in recent years.
Thank you. Just in terms of electric, yeah you recognize and you identify a
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:33:11
real challenge that there is through the climate and
environment plan work and we've been looking at network capacity because this
affects obviously not car charging but our ability to bring in more electric
buses etc etc and done a number of studies around the capacity across the
network and how we can bring more in and currently there is there is a
reasonable capacity across West Yorkshire obviously as time goes on
things change and things get added to that to that network so it's something
that we are constantly monitoring and obviously there are other technologies
beside electric vehicles as well. Thank you. Councillor McGrath. Thank you very much
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:33:54
Tony McGrath - 0:33:59
Chair. Going into the 71 % of stations not hitting the the accessibility
levels that we we want to find in West Yorkshire and following on from both
Councillor Courtney and Councillor Morley I think it is, mentioning specific train
stations that need the upgrades for accessibility. Is there a target list
that you have or is it based solely on where funds are coming in? So I mentioned
somebody mentioned the Trans -Penine funds being used on specific stations
so they just got lucky because they're part of the wider strategic plan to
upgrade that area. Then there's also the Peniston line that's got 96 million
pounds of the funding so those stations even though maybe less used are they
more likely to get done quicker because they've got funding on that line and
because people mentioned specific stations probably within the wards they represent, I'm going to do the same.
Is there an update on the upgrade from stairs to potentially a lift or some other solution at Hawnley train station?
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:34:55
Thank you. Luckily, I've got new Punsie train station in my ward, which is reasonably well served.
But we'll go through, Helen, I guess the wider question is around just where that funding that we've set aside from the CRSTS is identified to go,
as well as then there's those specific projects.
So in terms of kind of wider if you know what I mean, quite a few
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:35:14
years ago now we did a study on accessibility across all stations across West Yorkshire and it's through that list if you like that when funding comes we can work and understand where things go and that's then based upon kind of patronage use but also kind of level of access.
So it comes in number of criteria and it obviously comes around to kind of what the objectives of the fund are as well to
to meet some of that and access for all specifically is done through Northern so
That is therefore them kind of working out how best to which stations to put forward in terms of Honeley
I'd have to check I can't remember off the top of my head where that one sits
So but in terms of its kind of level of funding into the might be able to say
Councillor Firth, did you want to comment on that?
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:36:02
Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council) - 0:36:07
Yes, I'd just like to correct Councillor Leggat about the Loughborough
Mr Loughton released it.
Yes, I'm sorry, I was thinking about Elijah.
So if there's a Elijah, you can come out and say that.
Use your microphone, Tony.
Sorry.
And can I just mention the access problem with railway station,
not just in West Yorkshire, it's throughout the north in particular.
The northwest, West Yorkshire, and the northeast are all being discussed
on this working party that I attend and the amount of money to make them right
for want of a better expression is vast and so we'll be working through that but
some are far worse in certain parts of the country as I mentioned than the problems
we face in West Yorkshire. Thank you yeah I think obviously Councillor Steele
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:37:24
mentioned the point at the last meeting as well that even those stations that
are fully accessible onto the platform you then do have a struggle sometimes
trying to get onto the train which can be at some height difference from the
platform which is a significant issue around as well. Okay thank you so we'll
move on obviously the only action there is to note the contents of the report
which I'm sure we all have. So we'll move on to the next one which is the update
on the Mayor's West Yorkshire Local Transport Plan which is back to you.
Please tell them to introduce. Thank you Councillor Kyle. Okay so again
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:38:00
this is just really an update on where we are on the Local Transport Plan and for members to just
note that update. What we're setting out here is really that we are developing our Local
Transport Plan in line with the Local Growth Plan as we were just mentioning earlier and the Climate
and environment plan to make sure there is a tie -in
across the piece, as you would expect.
This paper then goes on to really talk
about one of the areas of the local transport plan, which
is featuring across all of that piece, which is really
around the customer and that door -to -door journey,
and to understand how we make sure we embed that person
perspective into our plan development
and use that from all the bases, including making sure we have
a high quality and attractive offer, if you like,
across our transport network and all the way
through to that door -to -door journey.
So it's really starting to kind of embed
some of that thinking in our policy approach.
This will then help us shape, essentially, our policy
framework that we're hoping to discuss with yourselves
in a workshop, hopefully before Christmas.
But we'll come on to that in time.
The paper then also just goes on to just kind of bring back
can summarize from the engagement that was held over the summer. So our
engagement and our vision objectives closed on the 30th of
September. This was a really good opportunity to have a conversation about
transport across the whole region and through stakeholder
groups but the public as well. So we do want to reiterate your thanks in
helping us to kind of facilitate some of those sessions. Your attendance there was
really welcome. And the outcomes of those sessions and that whole engagement will come
back to Transport Committee in January as I've said. Early indications have shown, we
had almost 600 responses to the survey and some really good panel discussions and webinars
and focus groups so we had quite a good mix. But early indications have shown there's good
support for our vision and objectives across the piece.
There was particular kind of conversations again around
buses you'd expect as kind of key topic of challenging
conversation across West Yorkshire and specific kind of
local issues but it was a really good, overall a really good
discussion and approach towards our vision and objectives.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:40:34
So we'll open up for questions and comments on this report.
just to note that obviously there is the list of principles that are in
development on that report to come in as well. I've got Councillor Buckley first.
Cllr Tony Hames - 0:40:51
Thank you chair. On page 16 3 .8 research is underway to understand the key
challenges facing transport users and then underneath that and on page 17 is a
list of possible things like making transport attractive and user friendly, affordable and
good value, safe and accessible, fast, tiring and reliable.
Well, if the, those are all obvious prerequisites to a successful transport system. So what
What research can possibly be underway if we already know the answers?
And secondly, and it may be the moment to bring this up, a clipping from a paper here.
Reeves targets £2 fair cap.
I just wondered if anybody had any pre -budget knowledge of this or whether you can share it with us please.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:42:02
Thank you, Councillor Buckley. People will remember on the previous meeting as well, we discussed the surveys that had gone on around with passengers.
I must note, probably if we weren't doing work to do the research, you'd be asking us
why we weren't doing the research properly, probably Neil.
So it's interesting that you're asking us why we're doing the work there.
But we can go in more depth about that.
I don't know whether any of us in the room have necessarily any inkling of what's going
in the budget, so we'll wait for that.
We've got discussions later on, on the next report around how we have to prepare for what
might be in that budget, and what has been unfortunately a period of time where no decision
has been taken on the national fairs because of the election and where we got to it and that's really a struggle.
We ourselves are outside that national fair,
but that doesn't mean that we're not waiting for a decision therefore on that as we detailed in the last meeting about how much funding
we may have to continue the work we've done at the minutes. That's a real struggle. But Helen, did you want to come back on the...
Thank you, thank you Councillor Buckley.
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:43:06
I think what we're saying here is for example as we've noted there the annual public perception of the Transport Survey for example,
It's just making sure that when we do our policy making we are
understanding exactly what the challenges people have
currently and what the opportunities are there for so making sure we have regular contact with the public and
stakeholders is really important to kind of make sure we are setting our policy direction in the right direction.
Thank you. Councillor McLachlan.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:43:37
Cllr Matthew McLoughlin - 0:43:40
Thank you chair. Yes, just on the customer principle set out in the report.
Safe and accessible. I just note that that's one sentence compared to quite a larger amount of detail in all of the other principles.
Can I just say that that does look a bit thin and in the light of the statistics and the conversation we had at the last transport committee meeting
which were very, were actually very shocking about perceptions of safety and
realities of safety on our transport network. So I can just advise that that
could do with a bit more fleshing out and a few more aims and objectives put
into it like the others so that it looks like we are in fact prioritizing it
because we are. Yeah thank you and noted and it's unfortunately one sentence that
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:44:25
captures a whole world of things that are going on behind it and at the moment
we've got a whole piece of work that will fit into the local transport plan
around EDI but safety accessibility under that and a whole strategy
that we're currently in process of developing. Thank you. I can't see any others on...
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:44:46
Do you want to come back? I'll have a second bite if nobody's gonna jump ahead of us.
Cllr Matthew McLoughlin - 0:44:53
Just on the partnership working with the districts on the policy
development, I'm just wondering if you'd be able to tell us when our district
officer teams and technical teams will be able to have sight of some of the
detail that you're looking to co -develop with them, they've asked me to ask you so I am.
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:45:12
That's an interesting question because they work with us every week as a team and their
offices do, we see chief hire officers every month and they see content through that and
we have co -development workshops with other officers in their team every month as well,
there is one on Friday.
And yeah, so they are part of that process.
There's some work, obviously, because we've
got the report to write up of the consultation for the vision
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:45:37
before we then go really deeply into the specific policies
on a public level.
So that would be the next step.
I can't see any more indication for that.
So obviously, the recommendations on there
that we note the report but also note the the work that's underway to develop
the customer principles we're obviously not agreeing to any of them it's just
noting that work so and there'll be a further report that come

6 The Mayor's West Yorkshire Local Transport Plan

so we move on to the next report which is the passenger experience report and

7 Passenger Experience Report - Bus and Rail

just before we start we do obviously have the exempt information that's linked
to this in the appendix, modelling options for proposed changes to the under 19 scheme.
Now in 3 .9 to 3 .12 of the report it does talk about obviously the wider issue, so perfectly
happy to discuss that section of it in public. But do you mind just for the ability of choreographing
the meeting if members do want to go into the details that's in the private
appendix would they mind indicating now and then we'll move that discussion to
the end of the item so that we can decide whether we exclude the press or
public I can't see anyone noting that so we'll take it as going forward that
we're continuing in just the public session raising the the public items if
anyone does raise any questions on on the appendix will then move that to to a
suitable time and exclude people from. Apart from that,
Mel, do you want to kick us off on that?
Mrs Melissa Liburd - 0:47:19
Thank you, Chair. OK, so if we start with patronage then in terms of our broader
bus network, we can see that we're at approximately 75 % of where we were
pre -pandemic, so March 2020. When we've looked at the year -on -year comparison
across our summer months, so certainly between last year and this year,
We have seen a subtle nuance linked to younger persons travel.
So we have seen a slight dip for the under 19s and the under 26.
And obviously they are a really important demographic for us.
But in terms of actual overall patronage, we are at around 75 % of where we were pre -pandemic.
In terms of the park and ride, we have seen an increase of bus journeys of about 3500.
That is across all of our three sites and that again that's comparing the
period of August last year to this year and thinking of journeys overall is 81
percent of where we were pre -pandemic at 2019 and we know that this patronage
obviously continues to be linked very much with work patterns since
since the pandemic where hybrid working has been adopted.
Moving on to affairs and inquiries.
So in terms of our contact center,
pretty much consistent with volumes of inquiries.
We've looked at August.
That's a really busy month for our contact centers.
It's very much linked to the school year and inquiries
around school travel.
We have seen a slight decrease, though,
in ticket sales and inquiries overall at our travel centres and there is an
absolute causal relationship in terms of the temporary closure of Bradford
Interchange because when we've looked at the data and we've excluded Bradford we
can see that our inquiries and our number of ticket sales are pretty
consistent so there's definitely been an impact of the closure of Bradford
Interchange. Moving on then to service, network sorry, I'm looking at the
services. There were some price introductions, some increases from Areva
that were introduced on the 29th of September, but a couple of their fares
remain static, which is the adult and child day tickets. And then just to note
obviously that there have been some service disruptions linked to Areva and
very much linked to the bus depot situation in Wakefield along with the
driver, the challenges around bus drivers, bus driver shortages and that's had a notable
impact on our services in our work field Leeds and Kirklees districts in particular.
Thinking about how we continue to invest then in our future workforce and grow our talent
pipeline in the transport sector, we're really proud to be working with the Ahead Partnership,
They did a presentation at a previous Bus Alliance meeting. The whole idea is
that we want to inspire young people to really think about career opportunities
within transport and what we're working to now is a series of interventions that
officers can support. So we'll be looking at things like career panels, work
experience opportunities and it's very much a two -way process as well so as
well as wanting to see people enter the transport sector as a real career
opportunity. It's also a fantastic way to engage with young people around how we
shape our services and we think about how young people use our bus network so
great work that's going on there. And then equally important when we think
about under -representation, we attended, officers attended a Women in Network
event that was held in September by Gravitas recruitment where we brought
together some really high -profile females in our transport sector just to
look at some of the barriers and opportunities of how we can encourage more women into more senior roles in particular within the transport industry.
Moving on to the under 19 travel scheme. So just again, in terms of context for this, it's a scheme.
It's around the affairs and ticketing scheme for young people aged between five to 19.
This particular part of the scheme applies to the single day ticket which is owned by the combined authority
So there are a number of young people's products, but they are also owned by
the West Yorkshire ticketing company
This particular scheme relies on the voluntary contribution of the bus operators working in collaboration with the combined authority
and
one of the key
Elements of this is around ensuring that there is one consistent fare for young people
to simplify that and make sure that there's pricing equality across our districts.
To help support young people, particularly in the cost of living crisis,
those fares have remained static for three years.
Obviously we have seen inflation repressures, costs,
operational cost for bus operators have also increased over that period of time.
There's also been challenges again with national driver shortages
and therefore the operators asked for us to start to look at the opportunity
around increasing the customer facing fare. Just to give some context over 4 .5
million young people have actually benefited from this scheme to the tune
of 1 .2 million since the fare, since the the scheme was introduced in 2019. There
There is a little bit of context in terms of the looking at the fares and thinking about
when we would like to introduce them and that's very much linked to the Autumn Statement and
central government's position nationally around funding for travel schemes and transport more
broadly.
So in lieu of that announcement, what we have done is worked with operators to start to
devise a series of proposed options for customer fares moving forwards.
I'm going to hand over to Helen for the next section for real. Thank you.
Yes we take questions on that first bit of the report before we move
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:53:39
over to the
next section and yeah as we saw before if we stay away from what's in the
the private document then because members haven't really expressed an
interest to come in. Did you want to add to that introduction first Simon and then I'll come in.
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:53:57
Thank you chair so it's just just to add for members information so obviously
since we published the agenda there's been a degree of coverage in the press
around the Areva Wakefield depot position. To summarize for members the
The maintenance shed at the Wakefield depot has effectively been condemned and therefore they've had to cease any form of maintenance activity.
Within that shed they've also had to declare an exclusion zone of I think it's 8 metres around the maintenance shed as well.
that's that's significantly reduced the operating space that are Eva have within
the Wakefield depot we've been supporting them to try to find temporary
locations and I know they've been getting support from council colleagues
as well in that regard but what it means is that they are introducing additional
time into their general logistics operations around the fleet. In addition to that, as
we've noted before at the committee, they continue with driver recruitment and retention
issues. It does mean that we are seeing a reduction in the performance of the network
and they want to explore with us how they go about addressing that.
There have been suggestions in the press of service withdrawals.
We've not got to that point with them as yet and were that to happen,
it would only happen in a timely fashion according to the agreed dates.
and so we will be continuing to help Areva to work through the position that they're in at the moment
with a view to safeguarding the network for residents, particularly in the Wakefield area where the greatest risks lie at present.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:56:26
Thank you Simon. So we'll open up for questions on this report. I've got Councillor Morley first.
Thank you chair and thank you silent for the update though
Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council - 0:56:38
Obviously the depot has been in the state of disrepair for many many many years fully
Funding not being put in place by bus operators to make sure that we are in the situation
It was interesting that believe they did meet with a local MP and guarantee or put it to him that bus routes
Would not be affected by this
so
They're really, you know, dated ourselves at the council about this, but it's concerning, it's massively concerning that they have a shortage of 76 drivers,
equivalent to about 22 buses in that area that could potentially be taken out.
It's so disappointing after so many months and years of cutbacks and cutbacks, the BSIP money that had been put in place, this could now be at risk by a reva.
It's not about funding this now, it's about there not being to comply with bus services within Lakefield, South Leeds and North Kirklees.
So anything that we can do working together to pull these gaps, people need a decent bus service.
We've only just got a call service back again.
This has taken a massive step backwards, so very, very much dismayed by what I'm hearing about this.
We need to be working together.
You know, franchise is still a long time off for West Yorkshire.
So we need to do what we can about this. So thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Morley.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 0:57:55
To follow up on that slightly, the chair and I met with Areva just last week with Simon
to discuss this issue and to really ask what plans they had for returning, what service
there was previously to Wakefield. We're aware that there are areas of Wakefield
that don't have the service we would like to see already, let alone a further degraded
one and I was then in the difficult position that obviously at the previous one I was told they had
to reduce some services in Wakefield over the summer and that I could ensure members that they
would come back for September and then the difficulty I mean now is I can't assure members
that those services will come back when they would and that that is not a position I would like to be
in and it's not a position that we're able to make the decision on it's a position that Areva find
themselves in which is a real struggle so I think what we really need to see
from them is a clear plan of how they are going to get back to being able to
cope with that network that they already run let alone unfortunately and start
improving and adding more services but we will keep yourself as a portfolio
holder obviously up to date as other members as we go through. I'll go
through further on the next ones. Did you want to come in on that point Eric? Yes I just
Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council) - 0:59:12
I just want to reinforce what my colleague Matthew has said.
The people of North Kirkley are just sick and tired of it.
Just wait to not go stopping.
It just misses.
There's loads of them.
All the time.
Cancellations, cancellations, cancellations.
I was in Leeds bus station on this Saturday afternoon.
And the cancellations everywhere.
because if you're going to these bus stations, there's so many services from Eriba
finishing there from all the districts and it just blew lights everywhere,
no pun intended, but cancellations may come up in blue. But let's hope they can get their act together.
By the way, I don't know if you're noticing your pack today, there was an application to be a bus driver from Eriba,
just in case anybody's interested.
Thank you. Obviously, we don't know how long we'll be in this job, do
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:00:08
we? It's not up to us to choose, so maybe some people may.
I've got Councillor Jones first and then Councillor Buckley after that.
Raymond Jones - 1:00:16
I found that quite interesting when we talked about surveys and passenger numbers and the fact that we have still haven't got a full crew of bus drivers.
I would point out that for the last 10 years, and I have an email that proves this by the way,
the last 10 years that's been the excuse from the operators. I don't find that acceptable.
What I am seeing is because of the number of cancellations, what the real result will be is
that more people will drive and will get more congestion. So what I'm asking really is have
we ever done a survey asking people who are leaving, why they're leaving the bus service?
Is it pay? Is it stress? I don't know.
I think that would be an interesting question to me.
I had a complaint this week from a resident whose first three buses were cancelled.
Had to get a taxi to work and then will be disappointed next week for failure to turn up on time.
This is the real effect of not being able to run the service correctly.
And I'll be absolutely honest, I sit here today as a member but I believe the service is totally not fit for purpose.
Thank you. I don't know whether any of us can give a report to that.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:01:24
We will obviously
have the operators here at a future meeting. You'll be able to ask directly. It's the real
struggle and I think it shows why we're making those decisions that we are to put the network
back in public control really because all of us as elected members will receive those
reports back from our residents around bus services that unfortunately aren't serving
them as well as we would like them to be. There is a struggle no
matter what and because we've got that reduced number of people on the buses
that obviously leads to reduced income and that does lead a struggle where
unfortunately what we're probably seeing is that the market is not functioning
for public transport at the moment and I think that's something we do need to
work on how we turn that around. Councillor Buckley. Thank you chair. Just on the
Cllr Tony Hames - 1:02:10
Riva situation, the bus station, is it still the intention that that would be
taken over as part of franchising? The reason I ask this is at the moment as we
understand it it's got a value of nothing because it's a condemned
building. So is it proposed that the bus station is taken over at some nominal
figure or nothing so are we taking on a liability or is it subject to for
instance another use in which case it will be worth a considerable amount of
money. That's my first question. And then the other,
the other point I wanted to make,
he just a general point about buses and for that matter rail,
the patronage figures, uh, down to 75, 77 % of,
uh, pre COVID levels. And we keep,
I think last year, the year before we were talking about 80 something and
slightly higher and going up and it seems to have settled now and dropped a bit
further to in the 70s.
And it really is a poor state of affairs, isn't it,
for reasons which we all know about.
But I would just make the comment that
if we take franchising on and this level continues to drop,
we'll be holding a very expensive baby.
Thank you, yeah.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:03:46
I'll bring Simon in a second.
Just one clarification.
The issues that are seen in Wakefield
and around the land, that is the Areva depot rather than the bus station.
There's two separate sites there.
But just to clarify, the depot and the station is a separate one.
But Simon will come more into that.
You're completely right.
One of the concerns I have is that these numbers have flatlined.
Is this the maximum amount of passengers that we will see on bus?
Some of that may be from people not coming into the office every day
of the week or similar.
So you're right that there is a difference here
in what we have to take up, what the system is providing for
than it did previously and that's something that we'll all have to be aware as we move
into franchising how do we deal with this differently than it was before but how do
we also keep it going so that's a real struggle.
Simon do you want to come in on that first point?
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:04:34
Yeah thank you so with regard to negotiations around depots I think not wishing to disclose
our negotiating hand in public and clearly we would bring appropriate private advice
back to members at the right time but Councillor Buckley you've identified a
number of the key factors that now need to play their way through in a
negotiation with regard to the issue of demand and bus franchise I think
there's probably two things I'd stress one is to remind members that that
within the case for change that we set out and therefore within the financial
case that was set out and we did set out a conservative pessimistic view, conservative
and small say pessimistic view in terms of a declining market and demonstrate how we
would be able to continue to manage the finances around it. And of course from a broader public
policy case, yes there is a risk that the continued decline in demand for bus
travel makes the provision of bus travel more expensive. It makes it more
expensive in particular for those who who have no choice who are dependent on
bus travel which we would argue is another good reason for us putting in
place franchising to protect a network for those people without a choice and
and then to re -promote it,
because it's clearly not promoting itself well enough
at the moment to those who have a choice.
Thank you, yeah.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:06:20
I guess one aside I'd add to that is,
even in the assessment, it showed that
if we didn't go ahead with franchising
and it continued with private operations,
the cost would still go up to the CA as decline happened.
So I guess what we've decided to do
we should take hold of that and try and halt decline rather than see the inevitable happen,
which which would be going back really.
I've got a bit of a list of people. So, Councillor Pinnock next.
Thank you, Chair. Yes, page 24. This is about the under 19 travel
Adele Rae - 1:06:57
scheme, but it's not about
Cllr Andrew Pinnock - 1:07:01
item in the private section. I just just want to seek clarification, really. It says an
announcement on this is expected in the budget,
following which a decision we made about how
fair structures need to evolve.
But then it says in lieu of this announcement,
model options, et cetera, et cetera.
But if the budget sorts this out, what do we do then?
Thank you, yeah.
I think the decisions will come around
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:07:29
various different fair implications that unfortunately,
there's a number of separate decisions
And we have to look at fares in around so there will be a decision on things like the single fare
There will also be a decision in how much money we get for the bus service improvement plan that we've asked for money in
Which will show how much?
Effectively we are able to put into fares. So there's a whole range of things
What you're seeing here is is one decision
We may have to take that we wanted to make sure was in front of members in case it has to be taken at the CA
Rather than here because members would normally take it. I don't know if there's anything else anyone wants to add
Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:08:07
To that, I mean, I think you've summed it up very well chair this that there's an unknown factor and it so happens that
The autumn statement will take place the day before
the meeting of the combined authority so we have
What we have identified that
There may be key decisions pending that relate to the budget to the combined authorities budget mid -year
depending on
the outcome of the Chancellor's statement.
Thank you. I've got a bit of a list of people Eric there. So,
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:08:44
Councillor Williamson next.
Thanks Chair. Going obviously back to the Areva issues in Wakefield.
Cllr Jakob Williamson (Wakefield Council) - 1:08:52
You mentioned the operators are due to come to this committee. Is there any chance we can get them in like as soon as possible?
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:09:04
potentially his next meeting because I think I really do need to come and I do
think I need to give an accounting for what's going on obviously with the bus
Cllr Jakob Williamson (Wakefield Council) - 1:09:10
services well I think the wider points I think I think it's really scandalous
they just start putting up prices on tickets I mean the sort of longer term
tickets like weeklies and beyond and stuff have been a sticking point for
residents in Watfield for a while because they're spending money on these
weekly monthly tickets and then having to then go and get taxis to and from because buses are turning
off and stuff and um I think um that there's some serious question marks about the um the bus
driver shortages and all operators are faces but obviously the work the combined authorities done
in training drivers up seems to have eased some of the shortages with the other other operators
but clearly it's not working for Areva so there's bigger questions around pay, conditions.
Is it toxic management that's driving people up because they clearly can't keep their drivers.
So is it about time we start demanding that they increase the pay, they start looking at the conditions,
they start looking at all the treatment staff and stuff because we can't go on like this.
we're gonna as we're moving towards franchising I can quite clearly see a
you know a position where it feels like very little bus service is going to carry on down this road and it does need addressing.
Thank you.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:10:35
Thank you. I guess as you say most of the questions you've asked there are for the operator to respond rather than ourselves.
The chair has asked Areva to come back to her with some details of how they see their recovery back to the services
would expect to see to Wakefield at that point is very clear that she'd like them
to come to the committee and explain that to members and I think we would
very much like them to be there to answer those questions at the moment I
don't think it was the time to because what we'd like to do we see their
recovery plan first so that we've got something that members can look at
scrutinize and up to but yeah we really know what need to know what the reasons
are for that operator specifically and why they may be more impacted than
Don't know this completely right.
Councillor Wheatley.
Your question being asked fine.
Councillor McLachlan.
Thank you, Chair.
Yeah, just on a point of clarification
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:11:26
around the calculation of the patronage figures.
Do they in some way take into account
Cllr Matthew McLoughlin - 1:11:30
the shrinkage of the bus network that
has happened since pre -pandemic?
Because obviously, to borrow my colleague Eric's phrase,
the spider's web of bus networks is, particularly in Wakefield,
a shadow of its former self.
And so can some of the failure to recover the patronage levels be attributed to the fact that they're just out buses those people to be on anymore.
And on a second point of optimism, according to Andy Burnham, since franchising the Greater Manchester's bus patronage is at 105 % of pre -pandemic levels.
So there is light coming from the end of the tunnel, even if it is coming from the west side of the Pennines.
Yeah, I mean those figures don't take into account as far as I understand it the decline
of the network.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:12:12
So it's that many fewer people that are on a bus.
It doesn't take into account the people that may no longer have a bus that they can get
in and we know unfortunately a lot of the changes were frequency reductions and when
you reduce the frequency of a bus then people do start to think of other options for travel.
Because if your bus is every 15 minutes people will just turn up to the stop.
If your bus is fewer than every half an hour, then you're going to have to look at your timetable,
work out if that journey matches you, and by that time you've already put a barrier in the way, haven't you?
So that's real struggles.
We do have higher patronage, I think, than Greater Manchester in the figure,
so that's one thing to add to there.
They were starting at a position where they had less of their historic network than we do,
and a lower patronage.
We will bring back members of previously asked around more detail around those figures that we supply,
the overall percentage patronage figures.
We're working through some of those
with the operators at the moment
to supply members better figures
for hopefully you'll see at the next meeting,
a bit more of a breakdown
because I think members wanted to understand,
yes, 75 % of patronage is fine to see,
but where is that patronage not happening?
We're also working on better things
in terms of the punctuality of services
so that you can see what does 82 % punctuality look like
and how does that match around the network?
So hopefully we'll have a bit more information to supply on that few when we come through in the next one
I don't know if anyone else wanted to add to
any of that and
Obviously, we don't find ourselves necessarily in competition with Greater Manchester at all times
But we'll we'll be there in franchising and we'd hope that boost they've seen through a single brand and and a clear fare structure
Through the franchising would be a boost. We'll see at the point that we restart to go down that road and council Courtney next
Yeah, thank you.
Cllr Alex Ross-Shaw (Bradford Council) - 1:14:03
And in fact, rather than being in competition with them,
it would be great to be working with them so that we also
get some cross -border surfacing and cross -border ticketing.
And actually, we can have a transport system
throughout that bus transport system
throughout the whole of the North that works in conjunction
with each other.
But that's not what I was going to say.
I suppose what I just on the whole point about buses
and journeys and will there be a service,
and we will be left holding an expensive baby.
And I think that if we're wanting
to give people the choice about how they travel
and to encourage active travel, which is one of our aims,
I think, across probably all the authorities
and certainly across the combined authority,
I think we need to see government support,
whether it's government at national or regional level.
I think we need to see government support
of public transport, particularly in buses,
as an investment rather than a drain.
And it's an investment for and it's
an investment in the people of West Yorkshire.
And I think that's it's really important that we see that as an investment. It's not a subsidy. It's not like a pain
It's an investment in our people and our places and I just think it's a really positive thing because of the benefits that it can bring
I just wants to make that comment. Thank you
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely
And that's one of the reasons why I mean a large amount of the network
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:15:20
that we see in West Yorkshire is funded by the Combined
Authority through the transport levy that comes from councils because there are services on a Sunday
That wouldn't exist were we not funding them. They'll be early morning late evening services that wouldn't exist
Will we not funding them in order for people to maintain those jobs and there are some entire services?
Where there are communities that would not have a service at all
Will we not funding one there and that's the decision we make and I guess that point around that network is
That where we're choosing where to spend that money
We have a set of criteria that we've talked through with members that are around
You know the deprivation in the area the link to employment that it needs to have in the area whether they have access to any
Other buses and that's the decision we're making when we look over that some form of that criteria
We'll have to go in then beyond franchising to why we choose to provide bus services in a different place
And and that's not always how the operators at the moment making that decision because that's not necessarily what their job is
But but as as local authorities our job is to support our residents and returns when a bus service would be
The thing we would want to provide for people so so certainly that hopefully should should add that value
And I can't see any more questions on this
But we've got the rail section of the report to come into which Helena and though you're you're ready to come in on so well
We'll start that process
Thank you
Helen Ellerton, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:16:42
On rail so and I think first of all just say that across the piece
There's been an increase in round patching edge across boat across northern TPN Alenia
over the last quarter.
That's mainly been due to, we think,
around the reduced number of cancellations,
so that's been positive, particularly across TPE.
Since last transport committee at the end of August,
so at last transport committee at the end of August, sorry,
we reported on the December timetable changes.
Since then, there's just been a couple of updates
that I'll just quickly run through.
So the first one was around changes to call -in patterns
between Coscades and Dartmouth on TPE. There's a slight change in number of evening and morning
calls and around that frequency from December. Secondly, Northern's capacity on the Penston line
has been reinstated due to stock upgrades and that will come back into play from December.
Thirdly, we are continuing to work and understand with Northern why the Sunday service
through Pontifecta Bagel is going to be taken out and those conversations we're
trying to get some conversations in place to try and progress and understand
that. And then lastly so cross -country services that were temporarily stopped
through Wakefield Westgate over the summer for works have been reinstated as
well so that's a positive positive there. In terms of
performance and so overall performance continues to be challenging and due to
strikes, non -West Day working agreements in places and M sickness, albeit as I just said
patronage has gone up due to reduced number of cancellations overall. There have been
though an increased number of cancellations, partially by Northern and they have been issued
with a formal breach of notice for cancellation levels by Rail North Partnership and Northern
are coming or intend to come back to the rail north partnership with a remedial
plan on this basis. Also affecting performance obviously of course we're
now in autumn and there is a leaf fall issue and so a management plan of that
is being put in place and there are special timetables particularly around
the Peniston line and but other areas are a number of kind of remedial routes
and things that the operators put in place to manage that leave for.
Elsewhere Transpennine Route upgrade continues to progress and there are major work improvements
at Huddersfield station with currently under construction of the two new platforms and
the customer waiting as well as improvements to the access new roof and track upgrades
around to allow more capacity for trains so that work is currently underway.
Also working at Merfield station and Ravenswalt station and they are doing track kind of renewals between Crossgates and Garthas so quite a programme of work is currently underway.
And finally just on kind of ticketing etc around Northern are currently working with a number of organisations to do a number of ticketing partnerships which are currently being delivered across the piece.
Thank you. Eric did you want to come in on the rail issue?
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:20:07
Thank you Jane. Thank you for that comprehensive report Alan. It was
Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council) - 1:20:11
really good.
I'd just like to report to the committee that some members took the opportunity to visit Holyfield Station.
And I think they were mindfully impressed with the work that's actually going on there.
It's just a shame that not a lot more of the committee took up the invitation, as I think it was worth going and members will comment on that too.
But work continues at a pace, as Helen said, and there is another blockade about to start from Morley on the 21st to I think the 5th of November,
which will affect D 'Yrsby in particular, D 'Yrsby, Batterley and other stations on the line to Huddersfield
but diversions will be made.
But I can only say that they are doing a fantastic job at TIU. I don't work for them by the way.
But they are doing a really good job and I can only applaud them.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:21:16
Thank you. Any further questions on the rail section?
Councillor Rosha.
Kate Ravilious - 1:21:22
Thank you, yeah, the dreaded phrase of more of a comment and a question perhaps, but just
reiterating the importance of restoring and getting a response from the Secretary of State
on restoring the Bradford Hill Clear Line in particular.
Obviously we had the Lancet which when it was closed which really affected our connectivity
which obviously wasn't the best timing with the interchange being closed as well, but
it's just, it throws up one of those things where you can understand business cases and
how we put together and how with limited resources organizations might look at
transport data and try and come up with a kind of on the paper system that makes
most use of it. But the challenge we've got obviously is in terms of things like
how communities connect to each other, the geography of the district and how
those people get to one place or another, what you start to get if you're not
careful when you have this kind of salami slicing of services and it's
obviously the same with buses as well. It kind of affects that district
cohesion as well you know people in Hillclay can't get through to Bradford and
vice versa that affects things you know we have staff on the council that were
certainly working from home a lot more because they lived in Hillclay and that means
people are kind of growing apart rather than moving together forward as a
district so it has a wider social impact rather than just passenger numbers as
well so really I know obviously it mentions that the chairs obviously
continue to enforce that message but yeah we still need that response so it's
on the table and a big priority for the combiner for it as well as us.
Thank you yeah and we'll change that response as well to make sure we do get it because
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:22:55
it is an issue the chair is very keen to get resolved.
Councillor Morley. Thank you chair.
Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council - 1:23:03
Just regarding the York to Sheffield route obviously Pontryp Baghill is affected by that
and we do need to know the rationale behind it so obviously it's disappointing that they're
not met with you did raise it last meeting so any feedback on that will be
greatly appreciated and just for any doubt I mentioned Pontifract twice I
don't represent Pontifract or live there it's just I'm here for the Wakefield
District that's all. Thank you. Councillor McLachlan. Thank you chair
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:23:34
yes to at the
Cllr Matthew McLoughlin - 1:23:37
risk of repeating myself from a previous a previous transport committee meeting I
think that the operator of last resort is to be commended on the turnaround
that it's managed to oversee in TPE because it generally was abysmal the year before last.
And I hope and pray that they are able to carry on that improved service into the larger timetable come December.
But can I just officially advise them again to please reconsider the withdrawal of direct lead services in morning peak times from Sloughton and Marsden stations in South Kirklees?
It's the first time since 1982 that there hasn't been one.
So I will not drop this issue and I will keep bringing it up again and again so if they're listening they take note.
Thank you and that is an issue you have yet continued to raise.
Councillor Firth did you want to come in on those last couple of points?
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:24:26
Yes, my last point on this.
Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council) - 1:24:28
Councillor Morley I can reassure you that conversations are definitely taking place about Megan
and maybe they're not to us in the distant future.
you might have some good news.
Thank you. I can't see any other questions on this.
So, I have got Councillor Steele, do you want to come in as the last one?
Yeah.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:24:49
Yeah, thanks. I'd like to reiterate what Alex was saying about the Brantford Hill Clue line
Cllr Sarah Courtney (Calderdale Council) - 1:24:55
and kind of link it to the use of scenic people's metro passes
because they're not allowed to use the metro at four o 'clock.
So if you're limiting the travel on the frequency of the services, then they really do get stuck.
If they're coming back from Leeds to Ilkley, for example, I think the last train that they
can get is 3 .32 and the next one is four minutes past four and they're not allowed to use that,
which means people who have gone for hospital appointments are stuck and either having to
to travel on the train, run, use their passes, can that be looked into?
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:25:39
Thank you. Is that something we're able to provide detail on now or can we take that issue away and look at it?
We'll take that issue away, Councillor Steele, and come back to you and or the committee on that point.
Okay, I can't see any other questions on that. So we'll move on to the last report, which
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:26:02
is the project approvals. And Simon, are you taking us through these?

9 Project Approvals

Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:26:12
Thank you, Chair. So we have one scheme for project approval today, Chair, which is the

9 a) A660 Lawnswood Roundabout

A660 lawnswood roundabout scheme. The intention of the scheme which is at a
recognized collision hotspot is to improve safety by introducing signals
for traffic and pedestrian crossings on all of the arms of the roundabout
alongside then onward improvements for walking, cycling and also those using wheelchairs or
other such mobility aids. The scheme has gone through the appraisal process, has set out
in our assurance framework and we can see that the scheme has a number of key benefits
to a range of different users.
If we take a traditional Department for Transport approach to benefit cost ratio, that produces
a negative benefit cost ratio we see this consistently with active travel
schemes because of the approach that's taken within that BCR approach to
assign value to the movements of cars in comparison to to other vehicles. If we
take an approach that we have developed which considers the benefits that aren't
associated with those direct delays then we find that there is a significant
BCR. Setting aside the BCR our advice is that the scheme continues to fit well
with the combined authorities policy intent has set out within the local transport plan
for the promotion of active travel and therefore we are recommending the agreement of the onward
development of, uh, of the scheme and, uh,
release of, uh, the first, uh, 1 .2, five,
2, a million pounds of funding to support,
um, early works, uh, whilst, uh,
we continue, uh, to, uh, what would the, uh,
the city council to complete, uh, their full submission, uh,
That would take the total approval on the scheme up to just an excess of three million pounds.
Thank you Simon.
Yeah, that's an issue we've talked about the committee before, haven't we?
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:29:29
The evaluation of schemes, not taking account the benefits for active modes of transport and road safety as much as they do necessarily for improving journey times for private vehicles.
So that that's one of the concerns we've had previously so that that's obviously something we see through this scheme
I'll open to any questions on that council rush or council Buckley
Yeah, thank you chair
Kate Ravilious - 1:29:52
Transport scheme that kind of runs afoul of
Treasury BCR things as we kind of try and kind of develop how we look at things more and think more holistically
Whatever. I think it's council Courtney in the pre -match. I mentioned vision zero and actually looking through this in the full of business case
That's not actually mentioned as a thing, but it probably go counter to that vision zero strategy concept
To not approve this when it's more focused on road safety
And it may be a question for us to text of a vision zero board as well, which I'm deputy chair of
of
How do we consider these reports in that kind of vision zero world?
Well, okay vision zero is more about that kind of almost like a pre stage
So you don't have to wait till the ksi's go up. Oh
This is a road safety priority scheme rather than a traditional highway scheme.
So how do we play that into that kind of vision zero world really?
So kind of sympathetic to the challenges of how you report this
and maybe that's an opportunity then to look at that
because it's very clearly set out with the KSIs
and some of it is going to be measured against, which is good to see.
So yeah, it might be something for us to take to that board as well
and think about how we produce those reports.
Thank you, yeah.
That's useful.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:31:12
Being involved in this scheme leads as well.
I know that unfortunately in this case,
there has been a lot of serious injuries and casualties
at this roundabout.
And it's taken a struggle to get to the stage where
we can bring something forward to try and stop or reduce
those, certainly.
So that's certainly a really good suggestion,
because yeah if it did not have that poor record that it already has I think
it'd be a struggle to bring forward junctions that may be similar but
haven't had that record yet where in vision zero we'd like to change them
that would be almost impossible I think to bring forward. Councillor Buckley.
Cllr Tony Hames - 1:31:54
Thank you chair. Well unlike some of the people in this room I use this roundabout
probably every day or nearly every day.
And how we've managed to spend or proposing
to spend 13 million pounds on a few traffic lights
on a roundabout, I do not know.
And the benefit cost ratio of minus 2 .15 to 1,
which is categorized, it says here,
as offering very poor value for money.
And then it goes on to say,
these highways' disbenefits are delays to traffic
resulting from signalization of the roundabout.
Yes, well we know they are.
And the fact is that however much people would hope
that lots of different people traveled in different ways,
95 % of the journeys in Leeds and round that roundabout
are by private car.
And there's a limit to how much you can limit
the use of private cars in my view.
And on a final point, it mentions here,
Cllr Neil Buckley - 1:33:17
the scheme's climate implications
include a net increase of carbon emissions over the 60 -year appraisal period.
Well, I don't know who's going to carry that out.
Perhaps there'll be about 15 when they start.
But the whole thing, to my mind, is a complete waste of money.
And it doesn't...
We're not against...
We're in favour of saving lives and having fewer collisions, but £13 million is just
too much.
Thank you.
I mean, we've been through this a couple of times anyway, haven't we, Neil?
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:34:04
Because both of us were there when it was called in for scrutiny.
It leads to the decision.
I know we had different views on it then, shall we say.
I think in this case, it's not to limit the use of private vehicles.
it's just to make sure that they stop to allow people to cross the road really is my view but
You've heard my view before anyway. Well, come on Councillor Morley
I think you wanted to come in and then Councillor Pryor. An area I do know well
Cllr Matthew Morley Wakefield Council - 1:34:28
I have family that live in the local area, but it always surprised me
Why do people think that car users are king when it comes to the road?
The roads are always there for everybody to use. For mothers with bus chairs, for cycle users, for
Everybody and should be safe for everybody
We had a similar scheme just on the outskirts of Wakefield the Newton bar scheme and the same
People there, you know slow the cars down the amount of people that see that's a safe area to cross now
let's say
families push chairs and make it safe so I don't understand why people get fixated on the
supremacy of the car and they should be there for all to use
Thank you, we'll take that as a comment I did forget to maybe fact -check one of your
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:35:15
Points you made council Buckley. I did see the report can't remember the exact number
But it's 60 something percent of journeys in Leeds that are made by the car not not 95 almost almost say
So so there's a point there that that will be different amounts in in different areas
I'm sure on that heading the corridor. There's a lot larger bus use than there is in many areas, but council prior
Did you want to come yeah?
Just just further that to that point to someone who does use that roundabout as a pedestrian as a bus driver as a cyclist
I get off my bike when I reach the launch of the roundabout to walk around it because I value my life.
It is simply not fit for purpose at the moment.
And I think I just really want to put on record kind of disagreement with the DFT's calculation on value for money.
You know, it's having 30 seconds onto car journeys, but tackling a huge accident black spot.
An accident black spot, which is right next to a school,
it's worth noting as well, but there's a huge number of schoolchildren who do use that as a walking route
because obviously they can't drive, they're children.
So I think the DFT not acknowledging though,
or valuing to the same degree,
the safety of pedestrians, children, cyclists,
it just shows that's not fit for purpose.
And I know this scheme has been a long time coming,
so I'll be very pleased to see it going underway.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Rae wants to come in on that.
Just a bit further on what Councillor Pryor's saying,
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:36:40
There are two high schools reasonably close to that and I can imagine that quite a lot of parents
Chris Steele - 1:36:45
Drive their children to school because I wouldn't become confident with my teenagers
Wonderful things that they are going to school across that road
And so, you know
I could see that there could be significant reduction in parents taking children to school just because they think they're going to be safe doing so
Thank you councilman breath
My concern is the majority of people discussing the issues that
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:37:11
they're having such as crossing
Tony McGrath - 1:37:14
the road, cycling being the issues. I mean, I'm looking at the crash map stats and I don't
know how viable they are, but they're saying that in the last 20 years there's been 15
serious incidents, zero fatal. Now I don't know how, I mean, I can only go by the data
I've got. I'd like to know a little bit more about the data of how much we're saving by
spending £13 million, there's a lot of money.
But in terms of cycling, I mean, I know the roundabout,
well, my partner went to Lonswood School,
which is on the Headingley side,
so thankfully she crosses much further down
and goes up the other side of the road.
But if the issue is cyclists and school children,
then traffic lights for the traffic aren't the best solution.
The best solution would be a tunnel or a bridge,
because then you're going over the road,
you're not slowing down any traffic,
you're not, so is it that the road traffic incidents
are the biggest one, or is it pedestrians, school children or cyclists? Because if it's
the cyclists, I would much prefer not to have to get off my bike and go down a tunnel and
up the other side than I would to have to stop three times as I cross each road and
stop the traffic for each one. Wouldn't it be better to have something for pedestrians
if that's the issue that seems to be coming up the most? But I don't know the statistics
other than what I'm looking at at crash -mount .co .uk, which is the only available data I've got.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:38:31
Thank you. Thank you. We have gone into those figures sound a bit low to me based on I think I remember seeing the the five -year figures and it was more than 30 incidents involving a large number of cyclists going across the junction.
Hence including cycling provision. And then there were collisions of pedestrians and there were a number of minor collisions of motor vehicles.
that were moved broadly.
I was severe, sorry.
But yeah, that's what you've got on that data.
And it's right to go in.
We have been through it in scrutiny in Leeds.
And in Leeds, we've been quite satisfied really that this is a key action in Black Spot in
Leeds.
It's one of our sites of concern and therefore something we'd want to solve.
But yeah, absolutely right to look into those figures now that we've looked at.
I think one of the aside is really that suggestion of how we tackle it.
because in this one, one thing I've noted is that roundabout is not like every other roundabout we have in Leeds,
which the majority of which have a crossing and this doesn't.
How we've got this far really without there being a crossing at that roundabout,
I'm not entirely sure to be honest with you,
because every other roundabout that we have already expects drivers to wait at the red light
for people to cross the road and for cyclists to cross the road, etc. and go through.
So I think that's where the difficulty is probably.
We're putting in at this roundabout
what should have been there for possibly
the last 40 years especially.
But yeah, come through.
Did I see yourself, Councillor Williamson?
Councillor Firth, yeah.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Eric Firth (Kirklees Council) - 1:40:08
Did...
Moving out.
You're not going to buy a house.
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:40:14
You must have been a psychic there Eric to know that's what he was intended to do.
I see that recommendation moved by Councillor Pryor, seconded by Councillor Firth.
Can we take a vote on that budget approval?
Thank you. Any against?

10 Date of the Next Meeting

Thank you.
Anything you wanted to summarise at the end of that Simon?
Cllr Peter Carlill (Deputy Chair) Transport Committee - 1:40:44
That's the end of that report and that's the end of all the reports.
So the next Transport Committee will not be until January.
There's obviously a lot of issues we've raised here.
We will see them at the CA and then we'll keep in touch obviously with members about
some of those issues in between the meetings.
Thank you all for attending.
It's good to see so many people here today and we'll see you all after Christmas.