Transport and Infrastructure Scrutiny Committee - Friday 1 December 2023, 10:00am - West Yorkshire Combined Authority Webcasting

Transport and Infrastructure Scrutiny Committee
Friday, 1st December 2023 at 10:00am 

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  1. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  2. Cllr Anna Watson
  3. Cllr Joe Atkinson
  4. Cllr Izaak Wilson
  5. Cllr Dave Merrett
  6. Alison Gillespie, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  7. Mr MickBunting (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  8. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  9. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  10. Ms. Sarah Naylor, Committee Services (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  11. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
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  1. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  2. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  3. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  4. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  5. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  6. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  7. Cllr Anna Watson
  8. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  9. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  10. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  11. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  12. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  13. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  14. Cllr Charlie Keith
  15. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  16. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  17. Cllr Dot Foster
  18. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  19. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  20. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  21. Cllr Joanne Dodds
  22. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  23. Mr MickBunting (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  24. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  25. Cllr Tony Hames
  26. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  27. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  28. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  29. Cllr Dave Merrett
  30. Cllr Charlie Keith
  31. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  32. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  33. Cllr Sabiya Khan
  34. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  35. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  36. Cllr Anna Watson
  37. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  38. Alison Gillespie, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  39. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  40. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  41. Cllr Anna Watson
  42. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  43. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  44. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  45. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  46. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  47. Cllr Izaak Wilson
  48. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  49. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  50. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  51. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  52. Cllr Izaak Wilson
  53. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  54. Cllr Oliver Newton
  55. Cllr Charlie Keith
  56. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  57. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  58. Cllr Dave Merrett
  59. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  60. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  61. Cllr Dot Foster
  62. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  63. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  64. Cllr Anna Watson
  65. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  66. Cllr Charlie Keith
  67. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  68. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  69. Cllr Andrew Pinnock
  70. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  71. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  72. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  73. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  74. Simon Warburton, Executive Director (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  75. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  76. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  77. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  78. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  79. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  80. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  81. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  82. Cllr Kayleigh Brooks (Leeds City Council)
  83. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  84. Alison Gillespie, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority)
  85. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  86. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  87. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  88. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  89. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  90. Cllr Kayleigh Brooks (Leeds City Council)
  91. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  92. Cllr Dot Foster
  93. Mayor Tracy Brabin, Mayor of West Yorkshire
  94. Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair)
  95. Webcast Finished

1 Apologies for absence

Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:00:15
Councillor Andrew Pinnock from Gately's Deputy J,
he can't sign the Watsons and Bradford Council.
Cllr Anna Watson - 0:01:43
Jenkinson, councillor for Coburn, on Calderdale Council.
Cllr Joe Atkinson - 0:01:49
Cllr Izaak Wilson - 0:01:52
Good morning I was at Boston, Councillor elites.
Cllr Dave Merrett - 0:01:59
morning, dead, marriage, sorry, Councillor Dittmar had served City of York Council.
Alison Gillespie, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:02:05
Good morning, Alison Gillespie, ahead of place and environment policy at the West Yorkshire Combined Authority.
Mr MickBunting (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:02:11
Good morning, Mick, Bunting, interim director of transport operations and service transformation, West Yorkshire Combined Authority, Good
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:02:20
morning, all it's a real privilege to be here, Tracy, Brabin, marvellous Yorkshire.
Simon Warburton - 0:02:25
Good morning, Gabb Simon Warburton Executive Director for Transport.
Councillor Sylvia Khan from Bradford
Councillor Tony Whitfield, I represent a multi-factor song.
Councillor Newton from Leeds City Council, I represent Morley.
Councillor Ahmed Cafe from Combpyne ward in Kirklees,
Councillor Dot Foster from Calthorpe, sorry, not translate.
Good morning Councillor Joanne Dodds from Bradford.
Case Officer.
Suriname equity support.
Ms. Sarah Naylor, Committee Services (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:03:14
thank you everyone.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:03:18
OK, so let's begin, apologies have been received from Councillor Mark, Thompson from Kirklees and Gillian method, Whitfield so anyone else.
OK, great.

2 Declarations of Disclosable Pecuniary Interests

pecuniary interest do any Members here have any pecuniary interests that they would like to declare before we begin.
can I declare my or your usual or non-pecuniary action for Yorkshire transport and awesome transport activists roundtable your bus for a month and?
forgotten the force.
in the minutes of the last meeting, sorry yeah, so for concessionary bus passes, thank you, Councillor Merritt, OK, is there any any others, no?

3 Possible exclusion of the press and public

4 Minutes of the last meeting held on 29 September 2023

5 Chair's comments and update

possible exclusion of press and public. Do we have any exclusions? No great meetings of the last meeting held on the 29th of September. Members can ask if anyone has got any comments or any discrepancies, though great. Can we have a proposal for those minutes and proposal? Thank you. Councillor Pinnock and Councillor Foster to second, thank you OK, so there's been some interest in item 5 or interesting developments and new devolution recently as it continues to unfold across the UK, which is placing greater emphasis on the importance of scrutiny
this is as a tool for accountability really for the decisions that have been made by our leaders, and we've I went to a meeting recently with the chairs and deputy chairs from different combined authorities across the UK.
and Sophie Waddington from the Department of levelling up housing and communities, spoke to us about some information that's coming up from out from our government on best practice.
for combined authorities with regards to scrutiny, and it's been identified by the the English devolution accountability framework, published on 16th March, that the Scrutiny protocol would support devolution, so we were given an insight into the scrutiny, pool a protocol, there's key 18 key principles altogether, which I think coloured as as sent out if you've had a chance to read.
it's things that we already do so, we do political balance, we do geographical balance across membership and sustained appointments made on interests and skills.
also focus task and finish work. Groups know we're just about to start flexi bus 1, but there's others as well, that we've got in the pipeline, so using technical expertise as well to inform scrutiny. So it's a, it's a document really based on best practice and as opposed to it being like a statutory obligation. At the moment it's been suggested, it's been used as a guide, so the combined authorities as we evolve we can. We can work together to create best practice for scrutiny. I think, has been accused in the past that we haven't got any teeth, but I think what this does is it sharpens them
and
so it's a new document and really it's just the start of a conversation and have him.
however, if we want to access the level for devolution, and we must confirm that we are implementing these principles here at West Yorkshire Combined Authority, so I would I, it was published on the 22 of November. I was really pleased to see that this Scrutiny Co Struth, says this Scrutiny Committee has given an example of good practice in key principle, 7, about using technical expertise to address these issues. Some of you might remember that we, we invited technical expert from the University who did come and talk to us independently because he tested the real-time bus information service and this has been used as an example of good practice. So I'd like to thank everybody who was there and yeah, it's Gray, really really, please, so
the development of this protocol sits well under the Corporate Scrutiny Committee, so Councillor Anderson as proposed, to set up a working group, and I would like to thank Keighley Brooks, who is not here yet, but she's offered to she's volunteered to go on that committee. I will also be volunteering to go on that committee. Then there's anybody else interested in help in supporting that, if you do then get in touch with Callard or myself or even if you've got some ideas of how what you think works well in Scrutiny, what you've seen, whether it's in your own local authorities, that you want to apply here, then get in touch with us and we will put that forward yeah, OK, another thing that they mentioned was training. So if we are going to look at all those different financial budgets, never think then it'd be really useful that we have some more training, so not all of our Forte's, so we do have from the centre of governance and scrutiny. We've got a financial scrutiny training online, coming upon the 18th of December, so I'd really like to invite and encourage all members to participate in that.
I think it'd be really useful as we move forward.
he

6 Mayors Question Time - Tracy Brabin

item number 6 gives me great pleasure to invite our West Yorkshire Mayor, Tracy Brabin to our mayor's question time today, and I have to say, after talking with some of those scrutiny chairs around the UK we are, we're really pleased to have you here because not everybody gets this opportunity and yeah no, really we are. We are really looking at a total yeah exactly where I was quite surprised, I thought yeah, so thank you for joining us. We've got a series of questions for you today based on five themes.
Autumn Statement, Bus reform, decarbonisation and behaviour change, mass transit and housing and any other if we've got time at the end.
so we'll move through these topics separately and you stop 15 20 minutes for for each.
OK, then, so to begin with, who would like to has anyone got a question on the autumn statement that they would like to ask?
OK, I'll I'll kick off OK after recent announcements Council HS2 made by the prime minister during the Conservative party conference, I've got major concerns for our rail network and pleased to see from the autumn statement that we finally got commitments to provide in 2.2 billion for a mass transit system Brilliant, great news. However, given that we were told that funding of HS2 phase 2 was gonna be relocated to more immediate transport schemes, I am deeply disappointed that the chancellor did not include any measures for rail in his autumn statement. Despite a focus on lifting people out of poverty, we know that a lack of access to affordable public transport contributes to a financial inequality, unemployment and social isolation, so transport should be at the heart of our government's investment priority. I'm aware that you have written to Mark Harper the transport secretary, and I'm wondering what else that you can do as our West Yorkshire Mayor going
ha, how can you tackle Mr Jeremy Hunt's lack of foresight, how how else does the level for devolution impact on transport, thank you,
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:10:59
thank you so much Chair, and can I just firstly address your earlier points about devolution, and thank you all as Scrutiny Chair that as Scrutiny colleagues for the work that you do.
we are really ahead of the game, actually we're in having three committees Scrutiny scrutinising.
our office and the things that we do. I think that helps us be better, because scrutiny is helpful, it gives you a new way of thinking and it challenges your thinking as well, so I just want to thank you for all that you do, and I am really do welcome the opportunity for extra training to, because it is a big ask to ask busy councillors to also then be across all the detail of lots and lots of different topics. So I am very pleased that we were mentioned and it's quite right we were, because I think you've led at the are. Our chairs have led from the front, so thank you I think it's going to the next step is one Scrutiny Committee so consolidating our three into one that will be a more resourced
with support to to be really.
helpful, so thank you for all that you do
so the Autumn Statement was really disappointing, it does feel like a pre-election handout when it comes to particularly around taxes, you'll know that, obviously the devil is in the detail and once the numbers were.
scrutinise further, it was obvious that any any cuts to taxes, the benefits, were completely offset by a freeze in thresholds, and certainly the most vulnerable, the lowest paid. We're going to be barely touched by this by by this Autumn, Statement to your point Chair regarding transport, when, when government seemingly overnight cancelled, HS2, which would have connected our four biggest cities, would be a huge infrastructure project bringing training, skills, investment, ambition to our country,
it was so shocking when work is already underway, so we had a HS2 plan that didn't go to the north and didn't go to London, all of that work, all of that money and I I do hope there's going to be further scrutiny from Gove from government and opposition about whereas that money gone and where are the benefits and it wasn't just me saying it was also cross-party and also the government's own infrastructure commissioner who also said it showed a lack of ambition, so I was hoping that then the suggestion that the HS2 money would be then spent on
regional projects that there would be a guiding mind behind that submission, but it did it did seem when you look into the detail.
that it is maybe you can go here, maybe you could do this, maybe you could actually have an extension here. It didn't feel like it was well thought out and the some that the phrase on the back of a fag packet seemed to be very appropriate because it was trying to patch up an east-west offer, that Transport for the North have been working on for many years and was submitted to government as our answer to transport across the north that was disregarded and has been disregarded on our or at many many moments. But however, as an optimist, I'm trying to see some of the positives and the commitment to mass transit was very welcome. That is going to be a game changer for our region. I have pressed government again and again to get that commitment to the long term development and the long term funding. We cannot go from a small funding pot to small funding pot. This is a endeavor or a decade long endeavour, and we've got to have that political will and that funding stream, so that was welcome.
the commitment to a Bradford was also welcome and I welcomed Mark Harper and due moment with Councillor Susan Hinchcliffe to Bradford.
to talk through, and to push government to work with us faster and to release the 400,000 to get us going on the Bradford plans.
that had been allocated in the devolution deal two and a half years ago, and still not delivered that has now got over the line, so I am pleased that that work is underway and we are moving as fast as we can to deliver the the plans for Bradford. The Bradford new station will connect with Huddersfield that will then connect onto the TransPennine route over to Manchester it. Isn't it, isn't there? Transport for the North plan, which is a new line from Manchester to Leeds, that will help with greater capacity, but as a pragmatist, it's money on the table, we deliver a new station in Bradford that goes through to Huddersfield. It's also the electrification of Leeds Sheffield. You'll know, Chair, that we were waiting for nearly two years for the terms of reference, how we get HS2 trains from Sheffield to Leeds that was not forthcoming, and it proved that government weren't particularly focused on solving that problem. So we will see some electrification, Leeds, Sheffield and Leeds to Hull which is very welcome given we want to connect the whole east-west from coast to coast
disappointingly, there wasn't much focus on the new station or improvements to Leeds City station, we know that that's the bottleneck across the North, we have to get government to focus their attentions on how we open up.
the station to make sure that at the moment, at the weekends, where over over 100% capacity of the station, we want to make sure that there are no blockages because of Leeds across across the North, there was also.
8.3 billion across England for road resurfacing, we've been waiting decades for money for potholes, it isn't enough, it sounds like a lot of money, but this is because of 13 years of underfunding of the highways from the government and there is also 8.5 5
billion for Sierra SDS too, but that includes mass transit monies as well.
there was also the following few few days after after the announcement the autumn statement, there's the levelling up funds, I don't really care if you wanted me to go onto those but.
the point of this autumn statement was, I think it was incredibly incredibly disappointing.
who benefited. One thing that was welcome was the expensive for businesses. That is something that West Yorkshire businesses have asked me or about that when they spend on plant equipment, etc that that can then be offset against their tax. That some certainty, but it it didn't answer the questions that we've been asking local authority funding. I wrote to the chancellor before the autumn statement. That was my number one priority, because all of the good work we are doing here is in from the from the mayor's office. We can't deliver if our local authority partners are hanging by a thread and have no capacity to work in partnership because they are laying people off because all they can manage to deliver its statutory services of
of children's services and adult social care. So there was nothing for local authorities, and it was quite shocking. How at the cost of living crisis wasn't mentioned either, so I would say that as a mare I'm in a position where we can be helpful for the people that we represent and for our local authorities we can try and do what we are, what we have the power and the money to do, but we need leadership from the centre and this didn't this didn't address the challenges that are facing us over the next few years. Thank you, Chair,
thank you Chair so yeah I would totally concur with all of that, I think there's a lot of people around this table that they would agree
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:19:43
as well, and we do make sure this is a political, obviously this is not about politics, this is really about you know what is best for the people of West Yorkshire has anyone got any other questions on the autumn statement or wants to make any other comments?
I think I think we've covered everything that we we've had on our list.
OK, so bus reform,
I would like to start with bus reform.
Councillor Pinnock,
thank you Chair.
Good morning grossly, I asked you a question that the correctly meeting the other day about.
timetable creep buses, time timetables getting longer and longer because of traffic, I think that's probably gone away judging by my journey this morning, which
seemed to make very little traffic coming in.
into later ones, but the thing that worries me most of all is that that there are a lot of plans to try and improve the bus services.
which which have faced incredible difficulties, people now working from home to an extent that that I don't think anybody has properly worked out, you know to what extent people are working from home and not going in traditional journeys to work.
are you confident that one, and I could ask this question about mass transit as well, but I will ask her ear I am confident that we've got enough money.
to be able to provide the bus services that.
will be demanded into the future.
I know that's a bit difficult estimating what those might be, but
I do worry that the always these things get underfunded, you know there's never quite enough money there to to do the the wow, what we what we might want in the future, sorry, I'd say slightly rambling question, but but
I I I, I hope you'll agree that the that we need to have it properly funded, and I'm just wondering how and how he could to try and get
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:22:09
there, thank you, Councillor Pinnock, and I totally agree with you, I think for decades, but buses have been underfunded and this is what got us into this situation because it is,
it's a service that's provided by companies that there are an
looking to make a profit, but quite rightly there they're a private company and they need to make a profit, but when when the government fund roads is not seen as a subsidy, is it, but when they fund buses that is seen as a subsidy there's not much I can say as you know Councillor Pinnock, because the consultation is out looking to the future in particular and I've been making the decision next year about franchising and franchising is the preferred option of the Combined Authority and franchising does give.
greater autonomy over routes and budgets, et cetera, but that's a decision that I've not made yet, and that's
I look forward to the consultation and next year, but I would say if you lived in Bradford you may disagree about about the time that you spend in traffic on a bus because of the because of the roadworks and so on, and I do know that First Bus have introduced a number of 8 more vehicles to try and stabilise the network but of course there will always be an disruption when we have ambition because we want to make Bradford better where I'm really hurtling towards Bradford city of culture as well.
and I know the ambition for from Bradford City Council is a really high to get that, but that public realm ready for 2025, so they're working at pace, but it is frustrating for passengers I do understand that and as, as you note, I brought my esteemed colleagues with me to answer technical questions but maybe I could.
just hand over to Simon regarding funding, because this is, this is something that is affecting not just tells us a region, but regions across the whole country, Simon
Simon Warburton - 0:24:13
thank you, so it's been a very common picture in local transport that we have.
are increasingly benefitted from capital investment in our system, but the revenue funding that is needed to support with services remains a real challenge for us, and we have sought to be very clear on that in the publication of.
the bus reform assessment
that we have set out for consultation, so so we are, we are very clear that whichever model is ultimately recommended on and adopted following consultation, will not, by itself, reverse the long-term decline
in demand for bus travel that we have seen over the past 20 years, and more we are also acutely aware of the fact that we
collectively with that, the bus industry, again under under any model.
need to continue to strengthen our our understanding of of contemporary travel market, so I him you make the point Councillor that.
you Eugene Ian, has has felt very congestion free, of course what we know now is is that Friday's is is the least occupied in a city centre offices of all of the five traditional working days, and that does play itself out on the streets, so so in the coming year we will be looking to set out ever more clearly how we go about understanding those fundamental changes.
in demands, because.
increasingly, that is gonna have to become the focus for the way in which we go about planning transport systems, if I may as well Chair,
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:26:25
I know that Councillor Pinnock also has raised with me in the past about ghost buses or as a traveller myself as a car or somebody that uses the buses I have a direct line to the operator so I can tell them when that goes but they say it's coming and it doesn't come or when the bus actually has gone past me and not stopped but just to reassure you that we have focused on this working with the operators and the fourth meeting of the ghost bus working group.
happened on in November, the 21st, and this these meetings were, it's a great title that isn't, it sounds like a band.
the the there were representatives of Arriva, First trans Deaf and, of course us and we've had some good outcomes, three large operators, electronic ticket machines on buses, will now be upgraded to 4G, which means we'll be able to improve tracking.
and also we would discussed, when possible customer communications, to explain how the real time system display works, but any late bus cancelled post the end of the journey time would not be logged as cancelled in the reporting system.
so there are still, there are still challenges around golf buses because it affects the accuracy and the one thing that the public are telling me that really matters to me is reliability. You need to know that when you go to the bus, stop that buses coming, because if you've seen it on your app, you know, you've two minutes to get to the stop and the bus will be there. This is affecting people's confidence, and if we can build confidence then we can build patronage. Thank you
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:28:04
Chair, thank you, and it's music to my ears, because it obviously did come to this committee first and when we did do a lot of work, so I'm grit and I'm really grateful that that's happening now and you know what great name for committee Ghostbusters committee
Councillor Watson's next.
Cllr Anna Watson - 0:28:23
thank you very much Ma greatly, are here taking these questions, so one of the things that is obviously fantastic about the mayor's fare as a regular bus user, I know all about it because I use the birth and I see all of the adverts at the bus stops.
what I'm finding by talking to you know local people is, if they're not a bus use, that they have no idea and they still have the concept that buses are expensive because obviously they usually used to be very expensive to be able to catch a bus into Bradford from where I live.
and just thinking on the point that Councillor Pinnock said about 0 and also what Simon said about areas of people not travelling into cities. Obviously there are some businesses, such as the hospitals where people are in. You know, the staff are there all the time, and I raised this with Simon at the last meeting that you know there could be. You could look at ways and systems where you are in those businesses where people are having to travel, it doesn't you know, they're not reliance on which day of the work or working from home that you could really encouraged by having the right information to encouraged both the staff and people
having to go and visit those businesses or the hospital public services to to be able to use the bus, I'm really interested to know a little bit more about what are the strategies and that sort of light, the blue sky, thinking that is in place to basically be communicating and promoting buses to current numbers users because I think there's probably a lot of a lot of opportunity there that we've not maybe not quite grabbed.
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:30:00
thank you so much Councillor, and it it's it's a really good question and I think it's also about partnership,
because everywhere I go talking to businesses, I say you could have a real benefit for your workforce by giving them an M card so that they can use public transport. Talking to the integrated care board, you know, how can we help you with your staff and there are there's submissions as well about late buses to get NHS workers to and from on shifts early and late buses. We've had those conversations as well, but this is absolutely a partnership strategy and something that is about the transport plan in its entirety, so that we know that everything is connected as well, and that's where the mass transit plans are really really important, because buses will feed into mass transit
and everything needs to be interconnected, but also our businesses and our anchor institutions need to know that there are wow, what's happening and you know how it can help their workforce. But I would also just like to refer you to some data, because I'm so thrilled about this, that nearly 80 million people have used buses in West Yorkshire. I mean that this is quite something this, so not 80 sorry, there were nearly 30 million and got ahead of myself there. That's my vision for the future. 28.9 million journeys were made during during the mayor's affairs, a product that's nearly 800,000 a week, but your point is really well made because it's not just those who are already using the buses, it's how do we get those people who are not using buses to even think about it, and what was really interesting was that
50% of those people from the survey who are using a buses more regularly have gone from cars, so I think the the the clarity of the 2 pound marr's fare has been clear and I think the cost of living crisis has made people think twice and if you're only going in three days a week, maybe you think I'll check out the bus, but it's also a job of work for us, and that's why the walkout rider campaign was so important because it was, it was getting the message out there about cycling and walking, but also riding the bus and making sure that you, you see the bus as an opportunity not just to get to work but for family time and for trips out and so on, but also 62% of the respondents said that they were aware of mayor's fares, so that's a really good news story and 35% said they were either using buses more or of being encouraged to keep using buses specifically because of mayors affairs and 25% of overall sample said they were using the buses more and 67% of that number said it was due to Mayfair's 69% said Moore's affairs have made the cost of bus travel easier to understand. 44% said Mayor's fares help them manage the cost of living crisis. 60% agreed mayors for has made it easier for them to make those multiple journeys that I think the day saver is massively impactful for, because that's any bus anywhere, any number of journeys,
at any any times, a day, at any number of times, a day.
I think that's that's that's really got our barely started, I've already loss of a voice, that's that I think that's really impactful for us, that's for pound 50 day saver, but it saved the people of West Yorkshire 11 million pound that's what devolution does because it's the leadership and don't forget we were the first thank you very much Simon, below your pay grade but thank you.
that devolution and leadership about what the priorities for the people of West Yorkshire. I do believe that we have been a real trailblazer in this space, saving people money on a daily basis. Thank you Chair, thank you. Some real good news stories in there. Thank you.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:34:16
Obviously, just following up from that, we had 33 million. For that. How much have we got left because I understand from the last meeting were burning through it? So where are we up to with with the finances? The I'm gonna pass the Simon on this one
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:34:29
but burning through it is actually the impact is also at economic and social justice impact, so it's not just money that's wasted, it is money that is elevating and supporting our communities, Simon.
Simon Warburton - 0:34:44
so we are having to reprofile the bus-routes improvement plan budget.
driven principally by, but by two factors, we we've actually seen that tremendous response.
to mayor's affairs, but we have also seen significant inflation in the industry, in the background, and the reimbursement rate is driven by.
a shadow for arrangement that that sits behind it.
as part of the budget, setting process will be bringing in an updated be set profile forward, so at that point we can ensure that that's available to Scrutiny Committee.
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:35:34
yeah, I just think, if I may say, Chair, the that the mayor's affairs is going to continue to 2024, which hopefully will be reassuring for the public of workshops, people of West Yorkshire and that's great
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:35:42
yeah, I'm aware that we did ask for this figure and I am still waiting, so please, if you could get that over to us, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you.
Councillor Keith
Cllr Charlie Keith - 0:36:33
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:37:24
thank you, Councillor Keith, and I think this is where devolution really plays a part, because having a voice for our region, challenging government and challenging investment because we have been like you say, we have been ignored and certainly when it comes to public transport, we'd been hanging by a thread haven't way. You mentioned London and s Simon is just giving me the figure that the the the bus network in London is subsidised to the tune of 600 million from the tube. Now we don't have a fair box, but that's where I'm hoping mass transit is gonna be helpful, and so you have the trumps them in and also the airport, they and the airport in Manchester, for example, that is a revenue funding stream in Sheffield. There is some fair box that comes from the Trumps, obviously it's not enough to cover the buses, so we need to be more self-sufficient, but also we do need central government to understand that when you are talking about levelling up the first thing, you must tackle is access to transport, and it's also with Councillor Merrett, here would be ha ha, I thought I might share at these numbers that the bus frequency in West Yorkshire fell by 37%.
and in Greater Manchester by 39% York fell by 49%, North Yorkshire, 50% South Yorkshire, 53% East Riding at 76%, so the decline in bus networks London is is not affected in the same way because of that protection, we have to be supported by central government.
in order to have that that proper network, exactly that's right and passengers lose confidence, and so then they until they get to 18 the pass the driving test and they buy a car, and we've got to stop them by buying that car because they've got a a transport network that works and anybody that goes to London you will see all sorts of people on that bus.
from lots of the realm pop stars pe, ordinary people going about their their work because it works, and because it's efficient, and because it's efficient, then lots of people use it, they get the income and it's self-sustaining.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:39:46
thank you, Josie, who's next what Councillor Foster.
thank you.
Cllr Dot Foster - 0:39:53
we had a debate in full Council earlier this week about getting home safely, and one of the things that was really apparent was the lack of buses late buses to get people home.
after shifts, particularly if they're working in hospitality sector,
I'd also care set to only be mentioned NHS earlier.
I mean, I looked at getting the bus home from full Council, I missed the one or water pass that quarter to 10 because we were still going and the next one wasn't until quarter past 11, unfortunately one of my colleagues gave me a lift, but that's it's just rubbish that is just not good enough and we cannot expect people to get a bus home if they're on any.
and that's just on one bus re, other bus routes are slightly better than somewhere, there's no buses after about six o'clock, it's not good enough, what can you do to help?
get more buses that run late at night and make sure that people can get home safely, because it's really really important, we cannot have shift workers and hospitality sector workers spending probably two hours of their wages getting a taxi home after a shift, it's not fair.
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:41:21
Councillor Foster, I do agree with you that the night-time economy is really important for us as a region, and particularly the workforce in the night-time economy are more often than not NHS doing shifts, but I agree wholeheartedly about the availability of buses, these are decisions made by operators whether they are economically viable for them, but I don't know if Simon would like to add anything but certainly in our MA.
mayor's big bus chat, the feedback from
communities and individuals was that they would welcome later and earlier buses you'll have seen in Liverpool that they have just they're bringing in in December night buses, they're trialling night buses throughout the evening, obviously we would, we would have to look at the economic model and so on, but it it's going to be interesting to see the consultation as well.
whether there's any feedback around night buses, but the Mayor's big bus chat did have a section on, would you would you, we are, what would the times you need the buses, so that's been really helpful data to feed in some?
Simon Warburton - 0:42:32
thank you 0 so that night buses are.
by their very nature, the most expensive bus services to provide, unfortunately, because they are relatively spouse a number, but I still carry a number of the overheads that sit behind them as a operators.
rightly points point out to us.
we we, we need to do two things really, are we we, we have to be able to make a case to to to a revenue source and, and that's very challenging.
I don't tell members of of the five authorities just ha how challenging that is we're within the current climate, the man makes reference to the Liverpool profile, which I understand Liverpool are able to trial through revenues that they have from them as the Mersey tunnel so again we made reference before to the fact that different places have different revenue sources and that is quite quite a challenge for us here in West Yorkshire so we are working hard with the business community at the moment to to build the evidence case.
for services in the evening and then to continue to to to work with F T, in particular, to to press them around, where else do we go with the basic model?
in order to draw down revenues, I think the second area is how we can start to think about more use of flexible transport services or into the evening, so how might we be able, for example, to work with a local taxi firms around shared taxi?
arrangements that help
to manage or manage costs for, as you rightly point out, quite often.
low income, quite often young.
members of at the Pink economy, but yeah, it is a real challenge for us.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:44:45
thank you, I'm just aware of time, is very important subject, so I think we need to spend a little bit longer on this one I've got.
his next Tony Holmes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Joanna Dodson Tony and then Dave Merritt, Is there anybody else wants to make it, as I think Councillor Khan, you had a question you would do like a puppy dog okay?
thank you, yeah, just on timetable and communication.
Cllr Joanne Dodds - 0:45:15
I mean, I am having a bus user and they are very unreliable at the moment and I do use the app and it is really good, but not everybody does use it app, they haven't got the facilities and what I've found is a lot of the bus stops down on unspectacular. Maru don't have any real time information and the ones that do are the old box old things, so many bus stops rely on on PIP timetables are not to all so many sounds outlook, considering a bus come in, so I'll walk, and then you'll see loads of people stood at a bus stop and you think they're gonna be there a long time coming to Leeds. I see quite a difference, so a lot of the bus stops of these like real time bus polls, where it tells you exactly what bus is come into, that, stop and you know information on time. There'd be ideal in Bradford and I wonder if there's any scope to introduce them in other areas to make sure that people are aware, because if they know that buses come in, on which one, then they're more likely to use buses. Thank you, Councillor Dodson, absolutely the street furniture and the the the stops
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:46:38
themselves. They do need an overhaul across the whole of the region,
Mr MickBunting (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 0:46:43
but make if I could come to you on the timetabling, thank you, of course, yeah,
I think we've talked about this last time in terms of the challenges that we've got out of COVID and what we had to do with our roadside displays so are an absolute basic offer to our customers and passengers should be the every bus stop and bus shelter as a or as appear at least appear per roadside display that's current incorrect and gives all the right information that the volatility in the market that we saw during and after COVID and still see means that the maintenance of those 14,000 shelters and stops is really difficult in that respect, but it is an absolute priority for our information team.
we have a really responsive online presence and I do appreciate the point that you've made about, not everybody has an accessibility to that, but just looking at all them card products, over 90% now of people use that's all a very vast majority to do, but we absolutely mustn't disregard those that don't but we we've we've got that commitment to Royal Lloyd's roadside displays out to all our our bus stations and shelters at the moment.
we do continue to engage with passengers through our transport focus service and Alan renewal service as well, to to listen to passengers and make sure that that offer is is absolutely as as as right as it can be, but we're aware of this problem and we are responding to it in the volatility that we were currently experiencing still post COVID in in the operational,
challenges that were seen in the market at the moment
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:48:12
thank you and Councillor Haynes.
this this may be an odd thing for a Conservative councillor to say, but I think that public transport should be public transport, I will never, I think, that privatisation has failed.
I Wallace Fowler and Councillor Hayden, but that's as official this year this is this is the the this are, the this is reasoning rock I've arrived at because I've always been involved in transport but not public transport, I've always been involved in transport and just at this moment in time the there are things that worry me now because, for example,
out, I would wish, I would be not want to be.
responsible for replacing the bus fleet in average.
match-up with the targets of decarbonisation, because I can envisage that the escalating costs of replacing vehicles will spiral out of control because they're not buses can never be electric buses, the battery operated, and at the end of the day they've got to be
Cllr Tony Hames - 0:49:34
challenged or I could envisage if I were operating buses and trying to improve Buffalo, I would've after on more buses.
more buses, and what I really needed in order to ensure that there were a regular service, so I would.
I would couple the bus reform with mass transfer with bus transport, and I think that the only true electric vehicle is something that runs on trucks or tram train, so much transport must be concentrating on that, and the disappointing thing to me is that an area like the Combined Authority, West Yorkshire, does not have something like Manchester and the chump system in Manchester.
and the metro system
because that is the way that is the way forward and I think that there could be mistakes made.
trying to meet decarbonisation targets, there could be mistakes made, there could be money wasted when I think the major investment in this area should be on the Trump system and that will be linked with with Wakefield, which is where we are from rather than everywhere with a proper metro system in the meantime, just to get the thing that's
stopping the timetables coup. The thing that's stopping the timetables and indeed and adhering to timetables is the number of cars on the road, and there's one or two things you could do to decrease the number of cars on the road, for example, Pontefract, where I live. We have a mass exodus every morning of communities going to Leeds to work in Leeds now if, instead of the motorway system we are is excellent but instead of marine fact factories and warehouses outside of motorways, we should have car parks and express buses operated regularly every 10 minutes along that the motorway system and the commuters pack as near as they come to their home next to the motorway and the buses, the express buses coming in and second off into Leeds, and then the bus service in Leeds, picking up that instead of getting the cars into Leeds and congestion in the road
this use went to work on. Thank you. Councillor and certainly park and
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:51:52
ride is something I'm a real champion of. I know there's been some pull back in the service of the weekends and so on, but fundamentally park and ride has got to be the solution because there will be there will be some communities that will not have access to a regular bus route. There will be it's inevitable because of our topography and because of our the layout of West Yorkshire and Park and Ride is gonna be part of the solution, but I would just slightly challenges that I don't think it has to be either or when it comes to EV Henri Le EV buses or a hydrogen buses even and mass transit. I think we should be ambitious and we should be doing both, and that's why I've committed to space in the ground by 2028 on mass transit, because we failed twice because it was a Leeds scheme. This scheme will not fail because it's West Yorkshire and it has the buy-in of all our leaders and it has the
is economically makes sense for our region to, like you say, like Manchester like London, and to have that to have that Trump offer, because with it how can it be right that Leeds is the only city of its size without a mass transit system? We need to get a fit for the future and I really do value your support Councillor because this is not about party politics. This is about what is best for the people of West Yorkshire and collectively. That's what we all want and we might have different views about some topics, but fundamentally we just have to roll up their sleeves, get on and deliver for the people of West Yorkshire. Can we do say an underwear word in my area? The lack of Bootle meant that the mayor's words were like a little reward system for people that were using the buses
because it did it didn't as well as I'm going to produce any more buses.
on the on the road from our residents.
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:53:50
it has meant that there is an uptake in passenger numbers, but I take your point exactly thank you, and thank you so much for saying that.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:54:01
I don't know, I mean, don't think you meant to throw yourself under the bus s.
no, you've got a really good point, thank you, Councillor Merritt.
Cllr Dave Merrett - 0:54:15
yeah, just just picking up Tony's point about battery electric buses.
the there have improved substantially and they are pretty capable of most reasonable, more modest lengths, bus journalist in New York first fleet will be fully electric by by next year, there won't have any diesel or or hybrids, or PE left.
obviously longer distance bus journeys, it's a different story, and that's actually what I, my main questionnaire was, was going to be about one or one of the benefits of the
current caps on bus fares
it has obviously been to shift different bits of travel, and one of the one that's affecting us
the situation on coastline, the 2 pound fare at the national fair or has significantly increased custom to the extent that it's now proving difficult there's quite a lot of the time for local users of the service from villages for which that is the main service even in places like Tadcaster can actually get on because the buses are for one when they arrive.
which is obviously a very positive thing him in one sense, but a challenge in terms of ensuring people local people for us can get to where they want to go, so I don't know whether the similar issues in the rest of 0 West Yorkshire but I'd hope that's something that you can perhaps so officers talk to the relevant companies to try and address so it's no good if people want to go
from York, to Leeds or or or locally in York, if they can't actually get on the bus.
with successive buses.
Cllr Charlie Keith - 0:56:11
in some way, it is a nice problem to have, but it is not resolved if, if people can't commute between villages or, like you say, get into work in or into Leeds, and I think yeah, you know, your your ambition in York is to be applauded actually because of your your electric buses and so on.
I know that you've got really good leadership there at the City Council and determined to deliver, we've got a programme here, that
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:56:40
says 70 million pound programme, which is gonna, try and leveraging private investment to accelerate that roll-out, our apologies, that's just the charging points and regarding the buses only 2% of West Yorkshire bus fleet are 0 mission, which is not good enough now our ambitions we'll take it up to potentially 19%, that's still not good enough, so that's why I really
applaud Bradford City Council for their work in they're looking at hydrogen as well as a possible solution, but we know that emissions are related to transport and we will do everything we can with that's car boss van or wherever, to make sure that we try and reduce those emissions, but thank you for raising that Councillor Merritt regarding the overcrowding and it's something that we can take away.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 0:57:38
thank you, I'm just aware of time, so this is gonna be the last question on on buses, Councillor camp.
thank you Chair.
I wish this issue to be noted and mayor, so that you can advocate on behalf of those women who have been them.
treated badly and discriminated against the 1950 s women. I'm talking about when the retirement age was raised to 66 for them, so inevitably they are waiting until 66 before they receive their free bus pass. I've been working and supporting the women's group and inevitably I have stories in my surgeries as well, when the women are coming there,
Cllr Sabiya Khan - 0:58:32
facing ill health and problems and the cost of living crisis has impacted upon them and they don't have access to the free bus passage which the previous women died at the age of 60. I do understand the autumn statement and all the challenges that the local authorities are facing, but I just wish the issue to be noted and placed on the table so that you can advocate on their behalf nationally. Councillor Khan,
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 0:58:58
thank you for raising that and as a Member of Parliament I was a champion for the WASPI women, my own sister is a WASPI woman and hearing the stories of so many having to sell their home or having to go back to work, not be able to look after their own families, families, so that they can work. I know it's incredibly challenging now. I'm not going to make any promises about what we can do, but I am very grateful that you've raised it because it is a hidden story often and you just expect it to get on with it. I think the government will handle it terribly with the assumption that everybody knew they all had their letters. They could plan for the future or and and their budgets when actually we know that that's not true, so many women were left behind and are now facing really struggling. Yes, when they've done everything right, they did the right thing. There is the family, the paid, the taxes
and now they're struggling at it in their later years, so very happy to take this out of the meeting, Councillor Khan can't promise anything regarding the bus pass, but I'm really grateful that you've raised it.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:00:11
thank you, yeah, I think we will second that.
let's move on now to decarbonisation, we've talked a lot in this committee about behaviour change and I would like to invite Councillor Watson to begin our questions, thank you thanks to you and.
Cllr Anna Watson - 1:00:28
so this, I'm sorry, because it at the 500 mic weren't here last year, but we had we did talk quite a lot about decarbonisation and I mean, obviously you know, we know climate change is desperately urgent, 23 2023 is likely to be the hottest year on record every year we seem to be breaking new records so,
hopefully, back in 2020 wicker looked at their carbon emission reduction pathways, and there was a full potential pathways, there was a max ambition, the sort of high hydrogen, the balanced and obviously the that was put against what Tindall the Tyndall Centre said was necessary and was compatible with Paris obviously,
we can put in a target, we're gonna be net 0 by 2038, we know that transport is a really wicked problem, we know it's the largest sector we need to decarbonise, we know it's politically a very sensitive area as well and it's difficult to decarbonise because of that so a year ago at this committee
when we were talking about this, we were hearing that the pathway for decarbonisation, one of each or you know, which one will be going forward going for max and we're going for high hydrant, etc had not been chosen, we've got just 14 years left to get to 2038, so it would be good for us to know, because obviously transport and the decarbonisation of transport is so key to this, which pathway has now been chosen by wicker on from the work that's being done so we will actually get to net 0 by 2038. Thank you for raising it, Councillor
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:02:09
and obviously it's a very timely question. Isn't it with Carpen? I don't know if you heard the King making his statement
about commitment to as a country to tackle the climate emergency. Unfortunately, he's not supported to some degree by the centre, with the handbrake turns on the direction of travel and I would suggest a complacency from the centre that we are doing well. Why do we have to be or are from or or are an outlier now we can actually pull back on our expectations. So we reported our most up-to-date position on on emissions, to the energy and environment committee on the 24th of October and just do regarding emissions. They'd increased by 66% in 2021, but 5% below the 2019 level. But you are right to hold us to account on the 20
38 target. It is more ambitious than government, it is more ambitious in some regions, it is going to be really really hard and we have only a limited set of tools available to us, but the pathway is absolutely the wave, the way forward. How are we going to get there and just on those specifics, I'll just hand over to Alison, if I may, thank you may hear that's fine, so so you're right, there were a number of pathways and we didn't select a pathway, and there were a couple of
Alison Gillespie, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:03:32
reasons that we didn't do that and I'm one of them was that there were a number of can have no regrets activities that apply to all of the pathways in that in early
phase and then there were also some technology uncertainties around a number of the pathways, so those are the two primary reasons, and obviously we wrote our climate and environment plan to identify the actions that we thought were with were the most urgent and would be most impactful to set that trajectory for the future. But we are, we are mindful that we are in a position now where we do need to choose a pathway, so what we are doing is commissioning some additional work, so we're basically updating the pathways work that was done and as part of that work we will then choose a single pathway and that works underway at the moment and it's being led by the climate committee, so they'll receive some more information at their next meeting in February, but that work is underway, but we haven't we haven't got the answer for you today on what that pathway looks like, but the the the work is underway.
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:04:38
if I could just say that was the pathway hasn't been identified with that clarity that I know that you're hoping for, we have not been sat on our hands and there is a number of initiatives that we've already got underway, regardless of government directions, and that's the better homes hub is one that I'm really proud of because I think supporting councils to help with the
with its social homes and retrofitting those working with businesses and companies to develop a model that private individuals can come to to get guidance and advice through the better homes hub, and that's going to deliver those retrofit projects that are going to build that momentum and that supply chain we're not we haven't got handbrake on our desire to get all of our homes or,
and if I may just add, let you know that the first and second wave was a 33.7 million, over 900 properties have been insulated or received low carbon energy and then we had a booster and 7 million pounds 880 property 88 properties insulated in areas of high deprivation because we know that the the poorest suffer the most from the time emergency, so we've been trying to intervene and also our solar programme, which is seeking approval in December and that the next meeting that's a target of 1,500 solar PV and battery storage systems, with working in partnership again with to together housing and of course our transport in initiatives. All of that work is trying to get people out of their cars onto buses onto bikes, walking, cycling
to make sure that we can try and reduce the use of vehicles across West Yorkshire, also the energy and business sustainability projects that have been really attractive to businesses. We have said to businesses, if you green your processes, whether you get a new, more energy, efficient boiler or whatever we'll give you a lump sum that you match, it's a grant, you just go ahead and do it, it'll save you on your energy bills but also helps us with our as our climate targets. So just to reassure you that was the the route is not as clear as we would like. We are absolutely underway with innovative, dynamic interventions that are going to help us work as fast as possible, because when I see the data and I see where we've got to get to and how high we are at the moment, it is the keeps me awake at night what you know, how do we work fast when we don't necessarily have the leadership
from the centre, with legislation that would give clarity to businesses, that would say OK, this is what businesses saying we are definitely going to work in in this way, what was helpful was the infrastructure commission that their steer was that hydrogen in homes wasn't something that they would support that was helpful.
it's the only leadership we've seen from the centre really, but to help us focus on hydrogen for transport and then obviously EV charging MB for buses and so on, and trying to get people on to public transport as well.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:08:11
thank you very much, and just just on that is kind of like a
Cllr Anna Watson - 1:08:15
supplementary to that and again fine, when we mentioned this last time about the fact that we're not going to see the governments kind of guidance on how we assess the carbon impacted projects, particularly transport, for well transport projects going forward, and I know you said that you know we are having to think about how you're going to get your heads around that because we're not going to have that coming out because that's been delayed by the Department of Transport, so I just on that because I know it's really important because unless we know we don't know which pathway we're on and how much is still there is to do, and then how urgent and you know priorities around money, et cetera, so I wonder, Simon, is there an update on what's gonna happen, seeing as we're not going to get the guidance and how far is the West Yorkshire on coming up with his own way of unfortunately having to work out.
the carbon and impact of transport projects.
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:09:07
of a possible cyber, but the carbon impact assessment that we talked about in a number of meetings and that being part of the business case for projects, and it's hard for colleagues and partners to get their head around and it is very technical and,
it is about understanding, for example.
a bike scheme has its own carbon impact as well, so it's trying to understand the the impact of a scheme retrospectively and look into the future.
it has been a challenge, but I think showing that leadership and saying that the carbon impact assessments should be part of your business case gets people starting to think about that, which is you know it, it's the start, but Simon, I wonder if you want to pick that up just on that particular question.
Simon Warburton - 1:10:00
thank you certainly done so, so we brought a report to the last meeting of the Transport Committee, at which it was agreed that that we would now progress with the preparation of new Local Transport Plan and or our anticipation is that we we have worked closely enough with government officials.
to to to to broadly understand the matrix that that would be used to bring forward.
a carbon or or assessment tool, what we will do that and a certain amount of risk, and we will adjust it if government does bring forward the guidance, but we are very, very clear that we can't really continue to wait the last local transport plan that we published was in 2017,
significant factors have changed in our environment since 2017, and we now need to be able to set out a contemporary Local Transport Plan so that there is a a public report that we took to the Transport Committee sets out a timeline for a final adoption of a new Local Transport Plan in 2025 of the stages that will go through in between.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:11:22
thank you, and thank you, Councillor Watson, and I'm aware that modal shift is definitely on the cards, thus to make sure that we get this decarbonisation at a point where we're all, we're all happy with it, so Leeds City Council have recently announced that,
motorbike access to bus lanes, so as we discussed before 10%, increase 40% reduction of congestion according to the low input.
so Leeds City Council have responded and have been doing a trial.
and that child has now been made permanent, I understand, and the report found that there were no adverse effects on buses or cycling and it's acknowledged the role of motorbikes in reducing car use and helping to reduce carbon emissions, so I'm aware also that Calderdale of this type of access in place for some time now in fact four of the five local authorities.
I've now implemented some of some form of motorcycle access to bus bus lanes, so it would seem sensible then, for the Combined Authority to support a countywide policy on this issue, is that something that that can be done?
I know that we're in the process of writing our Local Transport Plan.
we don't have those powers, those are transport powers that are held
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:12:42
by the local authorities in itself is for each local authority to make those decisions, but I hope that.
you welcomed our Deputy Mayor, Alison, Lowe, coming to talk to the campaign group 35 representatives to understand how we can be helpful in this space, but unfortunately not my responsibility, thank you for that clarity yeah, it was a real, it was.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:13:04
I didn't I didn't know that I was gonna be go into that I was asked very last minute and it was yeah, it was a pleasure to to be able to represent people Councillor,
Councillor Wilson is next.
Geoff
Cllr Izaak Wilson - 1:13:20
Good morning.
God, we've got one or an item about vision Zero later on, I think probably but.
I wanted to pull out walking specifically in regard to decarbonisation and
I think, for example, of schemes in my ward
that the cycling but active travel schemes I mean that the cycling component often has more visibility, but actually I think the greater value is often for pedestrians in terms of safer pedestrian crossings, wider footways and so on.
but my what I'm wondering, is
do you feel that the funding opportunities available to us as Combined Authority recognise the value of Woking adequately, is there more we can do to put walking higher up the agenda in terms of lobbying for national government support and, in general?
and could you perhaps talk a little bit about your plans more generally for encouraging walking, I think the potential there, so many of us are pedestrians, even a reasonably small increase in the number of people walking for short journeys probably has a greater impact than a lot of other transport schemes but, for example things like widening pavements or even dealing with very localised flooding or whatever on a particular street I can think of a few in my ward.
would probably make quite a big difference in terms of the number of people walking by suspects that they're not the sort of schemes that would be seen, as you know, you were view of national active travel funding or would have the so just be really interested in your thoughts on that and how perhaps you could help us lobby for change.
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:15:07
Thank you, Councillor Wilson, and I totally agree, and that's why I was really pleased to be able to fund walk to school programme.
with primary school children that encouraging parents to want their kids to school with with the also the the message that you get chance to chat on the way to school, and that was really at that landed well with Sophie.
I forget the name of the organisation, but it's it was well-funded, it had support from the school and that's been rolled out. The pilot I think was in Bradford and it's gonna be rolled out more widely, but it's also why I was happy to really push and support Walcott Rider, because walk it, I mean it's not cycle ride it or you know it is absolutely about walking to the next mode of transport or walking to school or or whatever, but you your point is well made and as Councillors you know better than me what people are telling you about their state of their pavements and their access to as safe walking. I've also been supporting
programmes that are what are walking routes, for one example is Bradford Interchange up to the hospital, and where is that nice walk and the what can you see on the way there are benches placed when you're halfway up the hill, for example, so you can rest I think there is much more we can do and and I really appreciate your advocacy on this.
and if you wanted to take that conversation out of the of the committee very happy to do that, I don't know if you've got any further points to add, but walking you're dead right, it's good for it's good for us, is you know and are,
our fitness and our health, but also it gets people out of their cars or at the I, I think you're absolutely right is fundamental in the context of
Simon Warburton - 1:17:05
developing the market for for bus travel, it's if the walk to and from bus stops is unpleasant experience that that that that's incredibly detrimental to public transport uptake I do know the one I and I know you, you've spoken there with Chris Boardman who chairs answering travel England,
and he's acutely aware of the fact that as an Olympic cyclist, he needs to continue to make sure that he's focusing on him working again, so it certainly Councillor if, if you keep a keen to work with us and we can put in some good examples to Christmas payment active troubling and I I think there'd be very receptive,
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:17:53
also, he was very complimentary about the work we'd done and which was very reassuring that we're heading in the right direction.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:18:03
yeah, I'm just are unaware of time, OK, yeah yeah, I'd love to take up
Cllr Izaak Wilson - 1:18:07
an offer, thank you, and just because I think what we're doing walking is very, very good, and I suspect you know nationally leading and,
so my thought is how we take that further, really and any further increase for the pan prominence walking in these discussions, thank you.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:18:26
it's all part of the jigsaw puzzle that is travel, isn't it?
a next will be Councillor Keith.
Cllr Oliver Newton - 1:19:58
Cllr Charlie Keith - 1:20:12
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:20:23
thank you, Councillor, I would say, knowing the people of West Yorkshire, as sometimes we must not underestimate the people of West Yorkshire and their desire for a better future, but I absolutely take your point I will be held to account by the the people. They will decide whether we've delivered for them or not at the ballot box, but I do believe it has been a tumultuous few years that aren't you know the reasons for that tumult is not us, it is elsewhere, so we could do with stability at the centre. There's no doubt about it.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:21:00
Cllr Dave Merrett - 1:21:03
thank you, Councillor Merritt, thank you just want to come back to the carbon assessment, have the opportunity for listening to the one of the key people who've been working on the Government's technical guidance, but also on the top the CA tools that they are going to provide and it sounds and there'd been working with a number of the sub-regional bodies down south they've also been assisting.
transport for the North, and I understand those tools, are actually likely to be available very early next year.
sorry, I think that gives some potential for proper evaluation of of of schemes
but the big takeaway I took from his presentation was as a result of the work that they have been doing, obviously testing the tools with for those of those bodies is that the infrastructure embodied carbon in the infrastructure.
for a lot of schemes is both monumental and for a lot of them, but absolutely swamped the potential benefits, particularly for cycling schemes, are into in terms of the modal shift and so on.
but it is also an issue with large road schemes, and it's a double whammy with large road schemes, because you've not just got the embodied carbon, are you actually typically, will be generating additional traffic yeah, it's gonna take years before the electrification of the road fleet gets anywhere, so there is a real challenge.
and it hit me out of the thought that it prompted for me, is we really do need to start thinking differently when we talk about defending expansion of the airports on economic benefit, of major road schemes on economic benefit, but actually we aren't facing the real challenges, the existential carbon challenge if we continue to do that so are,
yeah, I'm not sure there's any easy answers, but I I think we are going to have to challenge our assumption that economic benefit in all cases trumps decarbonisation, we're gonna have to do things very significantly differently, so I do hope that we start thinking about that in terms of
your future local transport plans will have to do the same or I am, but we cannot continue with business as usual or giving excuses.
around economic benefits, when actually it's gonna, generate a disaster down the line.
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:24:09
Councillor Barrett, thank you for that, and it's very thoughtful submission. It is incredibly difficult, balancing the needs for future generations and growth for our immediate immediately for our for our communities, but I appreciate what you're saying and we do need we do need that. Clarity from from government and another Transport for the North have done a huge amount of work in this space and you know we're all trying to do our best in what is a very uncertain future, so thank you
thank you.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:24:44
Councillor Foster.
thank you.
Cllr Dot Foster - 1:24:49
just a quick one and go back to Councillor Wilson Smith pointed out, walking really.
so one of the biggest challenges for walking anywhere is blocked, pavements cars parked on them, sometimes all four we'll certainly hear you could scarcely squeeze past, never mind get a pushchair or a wheelchair or anything else about them.
there's overgrown hedges that obscure the pavement so that people are forced into the road and a general lack of any budget for maintenance of footpaths, though all in a lot of cases there are in very poor condition caused mostly by people parking on them, so what can you do to lobby for more money for footpath maintenance and how can you work with the police to
tighten up on inconsiderate parking on pavements that doesn't allow people to actually walk past, and thank you I agree, Councillor
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:25:48
Foster, that the that when you've got a double buggy or you're in a wheelchair and yeah, and you want that, you want to have access to your community and you're blocked or forced into the road because of selfish parking. Sometimes though some of that parking is necessity because it's outside your house, and if you don't go on the pavement, the bus can't get past, so there's something we've got to find other solutions as well, which is a parking elsewhere or encouraging homeowners to walk round the corner
to whether car is parked so and have a more generous spirit for for our communities, but when it comes to the pavement maintenance, that is a local authority responsibilities, and we know, and the Coakley's 60% of their budget has been cut since 2010. We know that they have had to prioritise other things over the over pavements, but I take your point, it isn't something I necessarily have statutory responsibilities for, but I take your point and I do sympathise with people who are trying to get about, because what I want is people to feel independent, to be able to walk around their community and to access all the services that are in their local community without feeling like they're trapped in their home because they have put themselves in danger going into the street.
thank you, yeah, it's it's difficult, isn't it, because, as you've
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:27:12
said, you are only have powers over certain things, you don't have the powers over local authorities that includes planning lots of other things as well, so thank you for that OK, so I think we need to move on to a mass transit that we've talked a little bit about it already.
as anyone.
would anyone like to kick off with that?
thank you, Councillor.
Cllr Anna Watson - 1:27:42
well, this is actually, this is linked thinking about.
can have the revenue aspect as well, that obviously, and it's Catholics in Nottingham had a great time network and it manages to use the
the workplace parking scheme to create revenue that it can put into the the tram system to improve it, so we know, May you mentioned earlier about you know, we need to look for revenue streams and some you know areas they have that possibility already have how have you considered or if they are working on to consider about how we could look at things like,
workplace charging to enable us to have a revenue stream so one, it's one of the things that is supposed to be like the no brain away to you know, you know, get people to move onto public transport because it's cheaper to use the person is to pay to park your car.
it doesn't need new infrastructure
and you know, most transport planners go. This is your sort of like you, no silver bullet really, so I'm just interested to know with the fact that we're looking for revenue streams. We want to obviously be able to have a great mass mass transit system. Are we looking out at things like workplace charging levels to enable that to happen also
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:29:09
with our decarbonisation pathway? Thank you for the question and
the expectation will be that we look at any ways that we can get funding or on, and revenue funding for our sustainability for of foot for the whole project, so we will be looking at all ways of making sure that we have revenue, I can't get a at this point say whether that would be something that we would take on and I'm I'm not sure that it would have to look at the economic modelling and so on, but I know that councils are definitely looking at that and in Coakley's you may see that they're the now the free parking is going to be coming to an end and there is gonna be
charging for car parking, so this this is happening. You know across our region, trying to find ways to
have a funding stream also support our climate or our climate targets and get more people to think twice, maybe about driving short distance, so we will be looking at everything.
Councillor Keith.
Cllr Charlie Keith - 1:31:09
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:31:36
thank you, Councillor Keith, and I think we will be looking at all options, and you'll have seen Leeds have been really innovative in this space with the ELOR scheme that they had a roof tax for developers and that was really.
I think one of the first in the country, there's also land value capture, that when we're looking at where a mass transit would open up a whole new area and obviously the house prices, potentially because of greater connectivity, would go up, but your your point is really well made that this is a whole new landscape, a whole new future and we have to be as innovative as possible and that's why I'm really proud actually that we are an area of innovation in this week.
is the innovation festival and we've had the immense innovation prizes and we are looking to all those clever people to help us with those solutions for the future yeah, we're so lucky, we've got so much
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:32:34
talent in this area, it's great OK, can we have Councillor Pinnock next?
thank you, Chair, can I just make a point about parking charges.
and that is that.
Cllr Andrew Pinnock - 1:32:50
many years ago a high or a parking officer said parking charges are not there to raise revenue, that is that is the wrong idea, they're actually to encourage turnover to get people out of the spaces because somebody else wants to use it, so if you've got a place where there are more parking, fewer park, sorry, more parking spaces and the number of people who want to fill them you don't meet charges so anyway, but this is about mass transit but some
the subject of parking charges work was raised, I'm an enthusiastic supporter of mass transit, but, as I've said before, unlike Greater Manchester, we have not got a huge supply of old railway lines here, compared with Greater Manchester, where they seem to have got loads all over the place so it will cost a lot really large sum of money and,
I, I don't think you Tracy belittle that point, but what about the idea that, where you see in in a number of other countries and to some extent here, where mass transit and railway lines go alongside motorways or in the middle of motorways even and there is a motorway that that provides a
a really good east-west route within West Yorkshire, which a mass transit system could fit into if you stick it in the middle of the M 62.
I know it will cause a bit of disruption, but it it means that you haven't got a low large land, take somewhere else, it's in the same line.
and I don't know whether whether that's even being thought about as a an idea, but
c. 1 of one of the problems, as I said, is that the in order to produce this system, which I think are a large number of us, desire it's going to cost more than it would in some other places, simply because we we haven't got land that can be repurposed from some somewhere else.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:35:11
but Councillor Pinnock, we deserve it, we'd be waiting for far too
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:35:15
long and if you're going to comply, agree with the cost, we'd never
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:35:19
get anything and unfortunately that slight, or it'll always cost too
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:35:24
much. I think what happens for from what I've seen with this government is that they'll spend up to Birmingham and then this all it's all too expensive, I'll know it's all too much and then they don't we don't get anything, so I think this is an opportunity for us to have that ambition and that vision and say Yes, it is going to be eye-wateringly expensive, but it is
so was so was the Victorian trains they were, nobody asks how much they cost and thank goodness for them, because we won't get anywhere without them, so I am ambitious, of course it has to be value for money, but it will cost a huge amount of money to your point about.
re.
mirroring routes that already exist, I don't think that's the that's the role of mass transit to mirror the M 62, for example, so there are routes and corridors that have been, it's like being sifted where there is.
one idea does this work for the community is this it is the engineering possible and we have been sifting options and we've got a number of corridors that are going out to consultation imminently, but Simon would you like to address that?
certainly thank you, so the OJEU, just to address the technical issue with.
Simon Warburton - 1:36:41
running Trumps are adjacent to to to motivate the with the two fundamental challenges are that a tram system needs to stop frequently to try to pick up Patridge, and that's a real challenge in the middle of the motorway.
the second issue is I, I can't even get my head around the safety case if a tram breaks down Ed and in that environment the points were made that the that we will needs to.
deliver a new corridors, and if you take, if you take Manchester Metrolink, it's actually a blend of new corridors and
rail lines which were still in operation, whose efficiency or irrelevant has been improved as a result of a conversion to to to Metrolink.
and that that there are strong parallels in terms of of the new line, so Members will be aware that we published the vision the vision has been adopted within phase 1, in particular there are too early corridors, one corridor are looking to come south from.
the city centre here into ultimately, the new housing development areas of of Kirkley said at an introduced break, but of course on the way through.
the southern area of the city, where we've seen huge amounts of
residential and yeah really important cultural and commercial development coming Co coming forwards in many ways that actually mirrors the Salford Keys blind in Ed and quite much too, which of course was all all new-build and was all about regeneration, and so I think what we are doing there is is bringing forward a proposal that is about the contemporary economic footprint.
off of West Yorkshire and we got a Victorian railway that doesn't always do that anymore. The second corridor that the that we're bringing forward again, yes, this is going to need to sensitively ma manage. It's it's reaching through communities between the two cities, but it's actually fundamental in terms of the operation of the railway that already operates between the the the two cities of Bradford or and Leeds, which currently tries to carry people fast from City City and serve the communities in between. It doesn't actually do either of those things
very effectively. So yes, there are expensive, there are very strong cases that as well
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:39:29
and to the to Simon's point, if we're going to have that miraculous 12 minute journey between Bradford and Leeds, you can't have it if it's stopping at communities and mass transit is going to be part of that solution, and I am really pleased that we can be we're in a position where we're looking at corridors that are not just Leeds.
that it is into Bradford and it is south out to Coakley's, because this is the power of this project that it can unlock our connectivity
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:40:00
across the whole of West Yorkshire, thank you, will it be future-proof?
yes,
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:40:06
as much as I can say that there might be a nuclear war who knows, but we will definitely be using the most innovative, the most modern, the
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:40:21
most efficient and sustainable ideas, quick questions from now on we've got literally five 15 minutes Councillor Holmes quick one,
yeah, a quick, well, I'm on 0 mushrooms, but I think there's only one answer for West Yorkshire and not only the Metro, the Metro tram system, and I think the they don't matter and we were planning for the future we're planning for the future and the benefits the benefits of doing a feasibility study about it.
it will reveal the job benefits, it's the economic benefit, the creation of jobs, so it's not just an expense and it's not whether we can afford it, you know, I don't think we can afford not to do it.
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:41:03
Councillor Lyons, you wanted to come and work with me.
because we are definitely on the same page.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:41:12
I can save it flow across in half and in it.
whose next, I think I think that's probably all we've got time for
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:41:19
with mass transit can we move on to housing, we've got 15 minutes and Councillor Brooks, would you like to start us with that?
Cllr Kayleigh Brooks (Leeds City Council) - 1:41:30
thanks Chair and fellow Tracey Hi, I'm sorry, I was way everyone.
so.
I mean, I don't know other, I honestly don't know where to start with housing because obviously I represent an inner city ward.
and over the five years I've been elected, I have supported hundreds of families and individuals
with housing, need whether that's overcrowding.
homelessness
yeah, so in in the past week a person, a disabled person got in touch with me who is living in a shed in these conditions.
and I am I'm not saying I'm not saying any of this to upset you, I'm saying it to to really bring home how important it is that people are living like this, it's it's, it's very easy to look at like the homelessness numbers and the overcrowding numbers and just sort of faiza out and lie have that sort of separation.
families who who live in overcrowded conditions, it has an impact on health and development and educational attainment of children,
as well as employment impacts on adults, and it can affect the the relationship between parent and child and between parents as well, so it can cause family breakdown.
so, in terms of social justice, rents are currently so high that people are unable to afford to feed themselves and are not able to meet the meet the the basic needs of themselves and their families.
so in in terms of in terms of the the funding that's available to local authorities to to provide social and affordable housing, I'm I'm really interested in knowing how many social houses have been built as far or as a result of receiving.
WYCA, funding, and whether there's anything more that can be done to tackle the housing crisis, thank you.
Councillor Brooks, thank you for your compassion for the people that you represent because, like you going out, doorknocking the quality of
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:44:04
some, as some housing, private housing, rented housing in particular is heartbreaking and that families have to live in those conditions. You'll have heard me say before growing up in social housing in a flat in Batley, a council flat that gave me that security and that stability to achieve in life and for so many they find that that security really powerful and very helpful, and that's why when I became mayor my target for 5,000 affordable, sustainable homes was really important to me, and I am really pleased that we have through that focus. I think we are hopefully achieving some of those targets. It has been really diabolical, the circumstances we find ourselves in, having set that target of 5,000 affordable homes two and a half years ago what has happened since then, when you have
government tanking the economy, so inflation, absolutely skyrockets, COVID, of course, and then a war in Ukraine, means that housebuilding has been, you know on on on, it's on its knees, so I am pleased that I can tell you that 3,183 affordable homes were started 2,750 affordable homes completed between 21 and 22 3, but around. That is also the fact that we had these stretching targets. The
the outcome that I'm really proud about is that we've worked with West Yorkshire housing associations to come together as a collective, they they came together to say we want to help you deliver on your target Treacy, and we we've just had not. A number of organisations like Guinness join that group because they are obviously building homes for the most vulnerable, but alongside that, at last year at UK ref, we signed a strategic place, partnership with homes, England, only one of three in the country, and I think that came about because of our vision here to deliver for the people that you you speak about and and that relationship can could unlock tens of thousands of homes across across our region. But we also need to tackle landlords, and that is definitely at a central government issue. I am pleased that we've seen the lifting of the housing benefit cap, because that was sending people into poverty, but also just finally, I was at a development that we lead on in Linthwaite really lovely brand new, affordable homes and I met a family and two children. She was expecting their third baby and they had been made homeless by a landlord that was worried about the no fault evictions, so he just got rid of them before it key because he was worried, it was gonna come in, you couldn't get rid of them and they are now in a beautiful home that I think they'll probably stay there for all of their lives in a lovely area of Linthwaite
that's where we intervene. That's the things that we do when it comes to social housing, obviously that is local authorities have capacity to add. They have the choice to do that we are looking at where we as a Combined Authority we don't have land in the same way that local authorities do. How can we be helpful in that space? But I am absolutely in lockstep with you that we need to do more, and I was pleased that Michael Gove announced a 2.2 million for Leeds. That is, is a local authority that delivers on housebuilding and their density. The identification of Leeds City Centre is welcome. The brownfield housing fund is a place where we sit, so that's the 89 million. We got an extra truncheon money to t to work faster, but we still have those those that red tape and those deadlines from government that make it almost so difficult when we could help and be helpful, but the or benefit Cost ratio of 1 when we've got areas of land value that I've really low like Bradford we can't deliver as fast as we would like, but rest assured I am doing everything in my power to put housing as one of my really big priorities to deliver and whilst we're not at our 5,000 target, obviously there's more numbers coming out as as the month for a long
but it has been incredibly difficult, but I do think that focus has meant that, as a region we are doing more and ensuring that people who, with a disability, the most vulnerable and not living in sheds, I don't know Alison if you want to if there's anything you want to add about housing,
Alison Gillespie, Officer (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) - 1:49:01
I think if you've probably covered a lot a lot of it there, Dorothy, I suppose, just in terms of numbers or as as Tresor describes our capital programmes, the only one that we are in control of is the brownfield housing funds, so the numbers on that all that we've did if we are in contract to deliver 1,113 affordable homes through that programme so as I think we've discussed before Councillor Brits' enter the Scrutiny Committee, that scheme was not designed to deliver affordable housing and we have pushed government on the flexibilities.
because, by their nature, affordable housing schemes are expensive, and, as Tracey mentioned, the benefit Cost ratio is is a barrier for us, but we're doing everything that we can to make sure that the affordable schemes that are coming through through that funding route are supported where where we can make that work and just to reassure
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:49:52
you that every opportunity to speak to Michael Gove about this issue of the BCR problem, I have raised it time and time again. Surely there is a better way for the North to build houses that it shouldn't be so difficult that we just can't build in the areas of deprivation that need it, the most where the land value is the lowest.
thank you, and thank thank you for what you do, and I think it's so
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:50:19
important, it's absolutely critical that we get this right.
I am just wondering if we could invite Michael Gove up here and he
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:50:29
could maybe meet some of our restless residents, he was here only a few weeks ago, actually he came to look at a scheme in Leeds that is a rent or a to rent scheme and there's quite high end.
it's it's all what's it called Alison, can you remember?
the scheme a muster dock.
was it the mustard Watson must or must herself scheme that he he does come regularly, and I do raise these things regularly with him every week and take him to the shed as well.
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:51:02
you know, I just think it's so important that these people it has to
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:51:06
be raised with them, your MP, though, does note that that issue for that does that person with a disability living in a shed, I'm sure you will be an advocate for them to challenge therein Peter Garrett raised in that there has comments.
Cllr Kayleigh Brooks (Leeds City Council) - 1:51:22
yeah, I mean, I have managed to get them in touch with the homelessness service and I'm hopeful that that person will now be supported into proper housing, but there's there's so little housing around and the the the pressures on the social housing register are so high. The yes, it's it's just really difficult all round and then the the private, rented, like the the the cheaper private rented a lot of the buy-to-let landlords, are also leaving leaving being landlords any more because of the the interest rates rising and everything and the robbing sell out, because otherwise it's costing them money. So yeah, the the
the the brownfield funding.
it would be really helpful if we could use it for more social housing provision that'd be brilliant.
anything that can be done to assist you in lobbying, please do what is now, because we we absolutely would stand behind you and wave banners,
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:52:32
thank you, but second that for Colorado's I think, called last meeting we we had, it was 8,000 waiting list and I think Leeds was something like 23,000 so yeah, it really is, it's it's a massive problem and obviously post COVID as well all of those may be private rentals that might have been used are now BnBs that's the issue we've gotten in Colchester anyway.
so any Councillor Foster,
Cllr Dot Foster - 1:53:01
thank you, it's just a very quick one suggestion maybe, as Chair has just said, we've got over 8,000 people were on the waiting list for.
capital for a social home at the moment there was 6 one key choice this week, so few that I can tell you that there were two one beds, 3, two bedroom three bed, and that was it, and at this the they're not that the very firm for few and far between following the war there was a huge building programme for housing.
necessitated by the amount of damage done to houses. An awful lot of those were prefabricated houses. Obviously, the quality and the build techniques of prefabs is hugely better. These days. Is that something we can look at to address this problem quickly, because one of the problems we have is not just getting the getting the planning permission and getting the Bill today, but it takes so long to get those houses finished or a prefab can be done dusted in 6 8 weeks. That would make an enormous difference to the to the scale of the problem, because we can address it quickly. Is that something that you can advocate for? Thank you. Councillor Foster, and I met with homes
Mayor Tracy Brabin Mayor of West Yorkshire - 1:54:12
England yesterday as part of our strategic partnership work and I was pleased to see there is a number of schemes in Calderdale that has been traditionally hard to build in Councillor because of your topography, but then in one, and I was particularly pleased. That is enough Calderdale, where there are areas of deprivation and real need for a decent social housing
what is Co complex is that companies that provide modular housing are going bust
we are looking at peat we're looking into a piece of work working with homes England to identify how situ managed to make it work, because they're there modular housing and they make their walls and all, although the pieces of the house actually next to where the building is that what is that the key, what is the key to make sure that modular homebuilders don't go bust in West Yorkshire because we can we can use them, so I'm not averse to modular, I think it provides a solution to many of our challenges, but what's happening with the market that we've got a modular housebuilder that's gone bust when actually we need it, so it is a question, but I am pleased I was really pleased to see these schemes coming online for Calderdale
Cllr Amanda Parson-Hulse (Chair) - 1:55:36
we are approaching time so yeah I'd like to thank you so much for the commencement date I said we would do really appreciate these these chats we have and yeah thank you members for all your questions on the work programme, the next meeting in January we're gonna be looking at bus reform and receiving our updates for on the franchising consultation and the flexi bus working group as well, which is Councillor, Foster Watson, Pinnock and Merritt and myself there as an invitation to meet after the next meeting on the 26th of January.
if you can that would be great then we can we can all reduce our travel.
OK, and the date of our next meeting is the 26th of January, I think everybody will have that already, okay, so interesting, discussion today, thank you everybody, and can I say thank you Chair, and thank you to everybody for coming and taking time to hold me to account because I can only be better if I hear from you so thank you yeah, thank you have a safe journey home everyone